Fellas, I'm looking for a little advice before I start my First Cycle. I've been training off and on for 11 years, the last 2 consistently. I'm 29 years old, 6'3" 235lbs and 9% bodyfat. My goal is pretty modest, at least I think so. To retain 15lbs of lean, muscular bodyweight post cycle while keeping things VERY simple. Here's what I came up with... Test Enanthate/Cypionate@600mgs for 12 weeks and Dbol@25-30mgs ED for weeks 1-6. I also plan on using legit Arimidex@.5mgs every 3rd day(Monday & Thursday)to keep the water retention down to a minimum along with the standard PCT, of course. Does this sound sufficient to reach my goal? If not, what would you change or recommend? Thanks in advance for all your input!!!-MM
You can reach your goal with a 6 week cycle, 12 weeks + another 2-3 for the cyponate ester to sufficiently leave your body so that suppression is lifted and recovery can begin makes for a pretty long cycle. If you eat well and train hard, and this is your first steroid cycle (i.e. no prohormones or other steroids before) then you should have no problem with gaining 25-30 lbs in 6-8 weeks. Just run your test for the first 6 weeks at about 800-1000mg per week, get a 1.6-2 gram frontload. and then either choose to run your dbol at said dosage from start of week 3 - week 8, or from week 1-week 8. You could also consider bumping up your dbol dosage in week 7 and week 8 daily this is to off set the falling testosterone levels. Adjust arimidex dosage as needed throughout the cycle, have nolvadex on hand, and/ or clomid for cycle recovery (week 9 - until full recovery achieved). Also consider throwing in an HCG protocol.
With your goals in mind, from my experience and knowledge, this is how I would run it
so here it is:
(adj. dosages to own preference)
test ena 1000mg -(ena is slightly shorter ester than cyp so it will kick in a little faster)
test cyp 1000mg
dbol 24 mg ed
Armidex and nolva on hand
test cyp 1000mg
dbol 25mg ed
Test cyp 1000mg
dbol 25 mg ed
Test ena/cyp 1000mg
dbol 25mg ed
*(begin Hcg protocol)
test ena 1000mg
test ena 1000mg
dbol 25mg ed
(adjust dosages to your own liking)
S dbol 25mg
M dbol 25mg
T dbol 30mg
w dbol 35mg
T dbol 40mg
F dbol 45mg
S dbol 50mg
S dbol 55mg
M dbol 60mg
T dbol 65mg
W dbol 70mg
T dbol 75mg
F dbol 80mg
S dbol 85mg
(last week of HCG protocol)
Clomid and/or nolvadex begins, recomend 2 months or until natural test reaches high normal levels.
Prisoner, I REALLY appreciate your help, but that cycle is definitely not for me. It goes against everything I've researched for the past 2-3 years about gear. I'm sort of a moderate conservative, if there is such a thing.
going 14 weeks is not being conservative. P22 gave you some excellent advice. You will do more harm staying on longer, than hitting a shorter cycle with higher dosages. you want to keep your size, but if you cant recover you wont keep size. I say do 750mg test/week for 8 weeks, and dbol at 50mg/day for first 6 weeks, or last 6 weeks. then clomid post. you will have to pay careful attention to the arimidex dose. .5 every third day could be too little, or just right. have nolva on hand, and use P22's hcg protocol, also, use the test esters the way he said to.
Maybe, I'm missing something here. 1000mgs of Test with 25mgs of Dbol ED is supposed to be good advice?? The Dbol looks fine, but 1000mgs of Test for a first cycle is simply OVERKILL. C'mon! Someone tell me I'm no alone on this one...
Actually, it is not overkill at all. You came here and you asked for advice. We have run these cycles already and we can tell you what they will do. IF you don't want to take our advice that is fine and we can respect that, however, I sincerely doubt you will be happy. The longest I would go running a cycle TOPS would be 12 weeks. If you want to be conservative the run your test at 750mg a week with your shots divided equally throughout the week after your frontload. Use 30mg of D bol a day for 6 weeks or just use it for the first two weeks and the last two weeks of your cycle. So many options here. Just don't cheat yourself. Make sure you frontload. Man I remember the days.
As an add on I would run the Adex EOD NOT every third day if you are going to use the higher dosages.
I think what's scary about this cycle to this dude is the frontload and D-bol in the last week.
It is NOT scary at all. P-22 is helping you get the most from your first cycle. Research "frontloading" and try to understand the half-lives of the chemicals you are using. The reason for the high dosage in D-bol in the last week is to compensate for the test gradually leaving your system. At the end of your cycle, both chemicals will be out of your system at the same time, which makes a PERFECT environment for PCT.
I said "(adjust dosages to your own liking)" if you want to use less per week, then do so. But with all the "research" you have done you should know these principles:
You can't overdose on testosterone or any other steroid (unless it is 17-AA - popping a 30-40 dbol tabs at a time I'm sure can't be too good for the liver)
300mg of test per week will suppress you just as much as 1000 mg of test. simply put: once you are putting in more test then your body produces, your body will completely shut down its own production; period.
1000mg of test (or any steriod for that matter) will give you much greater gains then 300mg or 500, or 700 e.t.c. of test will.
The longer you cycle, no matter how much you use, the harder it will be to recover i.e.: 1000mg of test a week for 8 weeks will be easier to recover from then 300mg of test a week for 12.
So, since your suppressing your endogenous production of test you might as well get the best gains you can in the shortest amount of time (to optimize recovery) possible to ensure that you actually keep the highest percentage of these gains that you can! CLEAR?
The only time long cycles are a good idea is if you're going to compete. If you are just doing it to pack on a little extra beef, it is not worth it.
p-22 is on the money! as he stated: you will be shit down at 300mg of test per week and make shitty gains. you will still be shut down at 1000mg per week but instead you will make fantastic gains.
choice is yours.
If you're using 1000mgs of test on your first cycle where are you going from here? It seems a little too much. Many years ago(15 to be exact) I started with 500mgs of test per week for 8 weeks with 25mgs of d-bol for the first 6 weeks. My gains were o.k, but nothing to be really excited about. Then I decided to reduce the test to 750mgs and increase the d-bol to 50mgs and that gave me increadible results. I would try 750mgs for 8 weeks and d-bol for 6 weeks maximum at 40-50mgs along with arimidex at .5 eod. This should give you the results you're looking for. You should have clomid for your post-cycle and use HCG starting on week 3. Again, mgs are very subjective and what works for some may not work for others. If you start at a gram per week of test you'll eventually have to use more in the future to get really good results and that is when problems may arise. By the way, the use of d-bol for more than six weeks seems in my view too much and if you're not competing I can't seem to see the benefit of it - sensible use of anabolics is the way to go. Sorry for the long message. E
Also: at 6'3, 235lbs you are a pretty big guy. It would be better for you to run larger dosages- I could see if you were shorter and only weighed 180 lbs but at your weight you should consider higher doses.
Guys, I honestly respect your opinions, but I'm NOT looking to compete or gain 25-30lbs. So, the idea of using a gram of Test right out of the gate is not happening. God forbid, frontloading 1500-2000mgs of Test a week and not knowing how my body will react to it is just not smart. I know my body better than anyone else and I gain pretty easy. My main focus is always on my diet, as I eat 6-7 times a day anyway. I "might" consider upping the Test to 750mgs/wk, but I see very little need to do this because the difference is only 150mgs/wk. Thanks again for all your opinions, but I'll go another route...
TO E-Machine: I do not agree with the theory of receptor downgrade. Is this what you are refering to? And the answer is yes eventually 1000mg of test per week may not be enough to give satisfying gains, but how big do you really want to get?
As far as dbol. 6 weeks is usually considered the "safe" limit, but I think that 8 weeks would not present too much greater of a problem. The liver, after all is a very resilient organ.
Seems like overkill to me for your first cycle - I did 400/week cyp only for 5 weeks and gained 25lbs for my first cycle, going from 6' 190 9%bf to 215. no anti-e and tribex after.
Guys, I honestly respect your opinions, but I'm NOT looking to compete or gain 25-30lbs
Then stay the hell away from steroids is my opinion. You have no business using. If you are only looking to gain a few pounds then do it with diet and other methods but what ISN'T SMART is risking your body for a few pounds. You stated yourself that you gain rather easily, then gain it. Why the need for AAS usage to begin with? We will see how you feel about a gram a week usage after your first cycle. Man, how quick opinions change AFTER somebody uses for the first time. Trust me I know. You sound like I did the first time I posted. I wish I would have listened.
You're missing the point, bro. Your body can gain only so much at one time. Frontloading 1500-2000mgs/wk for a First Cycle, IMO, is CRAZY!! Then where do you go a 2nd cycle? 2500mgs/wk!! Thanks, but no thanks!! I'll pass. I'm still going to use gear, but I'm going to be a little more sensible about it. Not just inject anything I can get my hands on because it's there. Laters
Millenium Man: YOU are a MORON! we are trying to help you and can't even understand our simple logic. Do you honestly think a gram of test a week is a lot? hell you can take that much almost in tylenol in one sitting if you have a bad enough headache. We are telling you what dosages to use that will give YOU the results YOU said YOU wanted. If you thing that YOUR way is more sensible fine by us. You'll find out the hard way.
And P.S.:never waste our time again.
Prisoner22, keep an open mind man. You know a gram sounds like a lot for a first cycle. Consider that endurance athletes in europe back in the day (before good testing) used 50mg Deca every THREE WEEKS!!
The east germans set world records on 10mg / day of dbol.
No matter what amount of test and dbol used u need to make sure your estrogen is exactly in the normal range - do this with adex.. you'll need to get a few $30 blood tests for estrogens (estradiol) before, and during your cycle. Also, it cant hurt to run nolva ED at low dose through out the cycle. it does have a nutt plumping effect aside from its post cycle LH stimulating activity.
Man, you may also want to run DHT - like proviron (not masteron). 3HSD activity is similar to regluar DHT with proviron. DHT actually helped prostate by limiting the 5AR activity in the prostate itself - via high exo dht concentrations. 5AR activity has been talked about a lot as the cause of BPH and increased PSA..
O.k Its settled then just take 10mg a day of dbol and you'll achieve your goals. Wait a minute though, Isn't it true that these are high performace athletes who win or lose their events by tens and hundredths of seconds? So a little dbol per day may give you that edge of the 10th of a second over your competitor, but as far as bodybuilding - this is a whole different ballgame.
The estrogen control therapy is good advice - but advice that has been given already.
And for using DHT - I though DHT was the culprit that caused Benign/ Malignant Prostate Hypertrophy in the first place!
But hey if you want to be 195 at 5'll with an 18% bf - follow this guy's advice!
I'm 6'0, 220 @ 8% -soon to be competing @ 220 @ 4% bf, I think I know what I am talking about.