T Nation

Test Only Cycle & Taper

So I am thinking of doing a Test only cycle with Test E and test P ( I happen to have both).

I am a big believer in less is more and I have always trained for strength and athleticism first size second. Keeping this in mind my initial cycle would consist of:

6-8 weeks of test E 250mg e3d
6-8 weeks Test E at 100mg/week

My questions are…would I benefit from using Test Prop at anypoint? and should my injections of Test E during the taper be 2x50 or 1x100?

Last, (and I am asking because of conflicting opinions ) should I have anything on hand i the form of AI or similar?
I have Nolva from another cycle…

Any input is appreciated. Thanks

So if I am reading this correctly, 500 mg of test per week for 8 weeks and do you mean 100 mg of test P per week? You should definitely use an AI throughout the cycle to keep E low and follow Prisoner’s advice for the taper. You need a stasis period of 100mg and then a taper in subsequent weeks. The stasis period IMO depends on how long the cycle is.

Craig

Yes…I meant the Taper would begin at 100mg per week then taper off as per P22’s protocol. The test P was just a question I wondered if there would be any benefit using it for the Taper.

Pretty standard to use prop at the front and back of an enth-based cycle – something like 3-4 weeks for the kickstart and 2-3 weeks at the end. It’s a good way to go if you don’t mind the extra pinning.

Until you’ve learned how your body responds, having anti-e on hand is pretty much mandatory.

I will continue using prop for the taper but enth seems to be fine according to P22.

13: 100mg test-e EW, .25 Letro ED
14: 100mg test-e EW, .25 Letro ED
15: 100mg test-e EW, .25 Letro ED
16: 75mg test-e EW, .25 Letro ED
17: 50mg test-e EW, .25 Letro ED, 20mg nolva ED
18: 50mg test-e EW, .25 Letro ED, 20mg nolva ED
19: 35mg test-e EW, .25 Letro ED, 20mg nolva ED
20: 25mg test-e EW, .25 Letro ED, 20mg nolva ED
Taper Letro

This is a sample of the taper I do, it’s P22’s.

And yes 100mg ew, means 2 injections each 50mg.

Test-e, Test-p… They have different half-lifes, ester lengths, but that really only changes the frequency of injection. Every 100mg of prop you will get about 83.72mgs of Testosterone, so you should inject every other day.

It is also ‘known’ to cause less bloat and sides… but is the most expensive of Tests. But other than that there is no difference, so I wouldn’t see much of an advantage with test-p… but I guess it would allow you to manipulated the doses quicker? So you would have to ask someone with more knowledge than me about that… but I would say it definitely isn’t worth the money to use prop.

w00t! Contributed :smiley:

-RetailBoy

Just wanted to correct my above taper this is actually correct:

12 week 500mg test-e cycle:
Each week has 2 shots a week so if 100mg each week then 2 x 50mg shots
Week 12: 500mg, .25 Letro ED
13: 100mg test-e EW, .25 Letro ED
14: 100mg test-e EW, .25 Letro ED
15: 100mg test-e EW, .25 Letro ED
16: 75mg test-e EW, .2 Letro ED
17: 50mg test-e EW, .1 Letro ED
18: 50mg test-e EW, .05 Letro ED
19: 35mg test-e EW, .025 Letro ED
20: 25mg test-e EW, .00 Letro ED
21: 40mg twice per day
22: 20mg twice per day
23: 20mg once per day

-RetailBoy

[quote]retailboy wrote:
Just wanted to correct my above taper this is actually correct:

12 week 500mg test-e cycle:
Each week has 2 shots a week so if 100mg each week then 2 x 50mg shots
Week 12: 500mg, .25 Letro ED
13: 100mg test-e EW, .25 Letro ED
14: 100mg test-e EW, .25 Letro ED
15: 100mg test-e EW, .25 Letro ED
16: 75mg test-e EW, .2 Letro ED
17: 50mg test-e EW, .1 Letro ED
18: 50mg test-e EW, .05 Letro ED
19: 35mg test-e EW, .025 Letro ED
20: 25mg test-e EW, .00 Letro ED
21: 40mg twice per day
22: 20mg twice per day
23: 20mg once per day

-RetailBoy[/quote]

You sure about weeks 21-23?

I may be wrong, but doesn’t P22 recommend absolutely no ancillaries during the taper? As in, you shouldn’t be on nolva/clom/letro/anything, and if you are before the taper, to taper off of them during the stasis period?

Straight from P22 referring to my taper above:
"Looks good.
you can taper off the letro sooner, for example be tapered completely off it by the last week of the taper - i.e.25 mg test E EW.

the following week then start the nolvadex.

40mg twice per day x 7 days
20mg twice per day x 7 days
20mg once per day x 7 days "

This was a reply to a taper I sent him, not the one in above post - that one is the corrected one… So it answers both yalls questions.

-RetailBoy

[quote]retailboy wrote:
Straight from P22 referring to my taper above:
"Looks good.
you can taper off the letro sooner, for example be tapered completely off it by the last week of the taper - i.e.25 mg test E EW.

the following week then start the nolvadex.

40mg twice per day x 7 days
20mg twice per day x 7 days
20mg once per day x 7 days "

This was a reply to a taper I sent him, not the one in above post - that one is the corrected one… So it answers both yalls questions.

-RetailBoy[/quote]

Okay. My question referred to the fact the you didn’t specify the nolva in the cycle you had posted, so it looked like you upped the test after tapering it down and that made no sense to me. However, again, what is the point of P22’s taper if you have to use a SERM at the end? I thought the whole idea (and I am pretty sure he has stated this) is to return the body to homeostasis…?

I am also getting a little confused. I am under the impression that a major benefit to implementing the Taper is the fact you do not need serms or AI’s (unless complications arise). The gradual taper of Test will allow the body to recover on its own. If Test levels stay steady for weeks 1-12 wwould we need an anti Est? Then as the Test tapers the body is being allowed to return to ‘normal’ levels over time.

Confused,

Smug

PS thanks for the help so far guys!

Just looked back at P22’s thread and at some other peoples posts.

P22 in his original thread didn’t speak about the nolva at the end of the cycle, that I saw. But in our PM conversation, months after the thread, that’s what he reccommended. Why I’m not 100% sure, I think it could be a just incase thing… But it’s liek anything else, it ever evolving every cycle he probably finds a better way to modify it. But that is what he recommended me to do for my taper.

[quote]Smug wrote:
The gradual taper of Test will allow the body to recover on its own. If Test levels stay steady for weeks 1-12 wwould we need an anti Est?
[/quote]
Are you refering to during the cycle, why I’m using letro through out it?

-RetailBoy

Also just wanted to add that SERMS were also recommended, whether during or after taper, by several other knowlagable posters here ie wideguy, bushy, and juice

-RetailBoy

[quote]retailboy wrote:
Also just wanted to add that SERMS were also recommended, whether during or after taper, by several other knowlagable posters here ie wideguy, bushy, and juice

-RetailBoy[/quote]

I guess this is what I am interested in clearing up. Do we need to uses sems/AI’s during the cycle or even after? The reason I ask is when the Taper topic first came up I thought I had read that it’s main benefit was not having to use as much if any serms or AI’s? Anyone able to clear this up or point me in the right direction? I appreciate it.

Smug