T Nation

Test Only Cycle Gains and Losses


#1

Morning guys,

I finished my PCT of 4 weeks after a 12 week test and mast cycle dosed @ 750mg per week. Made some good gains and got up to 104 kgs up from 95 kgs. However since coming off the gear I have dropped back down to 95 kgs. My calorie intake has stayed the same throughout and more so during the pct period. I've been training well and never had a week off but I just can't seem to maintain the gains after a cycle. This is the second test/mast cycle I've done and exactly the same has happened.

It's very frustrating to see my gains fall off so quickly after my cycle so my question is am I doing something drastically wrong?

Calorie intake sits at about 4000 cal per day while bulking. Diet is vwry clean and consistent.

Any advice would be great as I want to make sure that my progress stays on me in the future.


#2

so basically what you’re saying is… you make gains using steroids, and then once you stop the steroids, the gains that you made (using the steroids) fade away.

what exactly are you having trouble understanding?


#3

You aren’t eating enough. Most of your “gains” are probably water weight and strength goes up while on so it is the illusion of muscle gains when in reality it is hormonal strength and water gain which are both temporary.


#4

Need to eat more. Seems like you gained a bunch of water weight then lost it all off cycle.


#5

[quote]Admad wrote:
Morning guys,

I finished my PCT of 4 weeks after a 12 week test and mast cycle dosed @ 750mg per week. Made some good gains and got up to 104 kgs up from 95 kgs. However since coming off the gear I have dropped back down to 95 kgs. My calorie intake has stayed the same throughout and more so during the pct period. I’ve been training well and never had a week off but I just can’t seem to maintain the gains after a cycle. This is the second test/mast cycle I’ve done and exactly the same has happened.

It’s very frustrating to see my gains fall off so quickly after my cycle so my question is am I doing something drastically wrong?

Calorie intake sits at about 4000 cal per day while bulking. Diet is vwry clean and consistent.

Any advice would be great as I want to make sure that my progress stays on me in the future. [/quote]

did you use an AI on cycle?

and what was your PCT, specifically?

could you post your macro breakdown?

do you train the same as you do while “on” as you do “off?”


#6

I’ll ignore one comment that’s been posted as that individual obviously has no idea about gear.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I did yeah, used aromasin at 12.5 mg each day. Pct was 4 weeks protcol: clomid 100/50/50/50 nolva 20/20/20/20.

Typically I’d eat 100 g of oats, 1 banana 200ml liquid egg whites, protein shake, half a cup of raisens. Glutamine

2 and 3Rd meal 200 g of rice 250 g of chicken breasts half a cup of chopped veg.

Pre workout: protein bar and fruit bcaa, argenine black coffee.

Post workout: banana, protein shake and seed and nut bar. Bcaa glutamine

Dinner: same as meal 2 but with 150 g of sweet potato or potatoes.

Before bed: 200 ml liquid egg whites, protein shake bcaas

I’d eat other things between these meals as my appetite was astronomically high.

Supplements: bcaa/argenine/glutamine/omega 3/calcium/vit c/vit b complex/ tribulus/multi vit.

During time on I run a separate workout which jumps between HIT training and volume. Basically switch workout every 4 weeks or there abouts.


#7

There seems an obvious question that maybe you have already done. Did you get a blood test after PCT and a clear system? Just running a PCT protocol is no guarantee full normal function has returned.


#8

What was your body fat like before cycle, and are you now leaner than before the cycle?


#9

[quote]Admad wrote:

During time on I run a separate workout which jumps between HIT training and volume. Basically switch workout every 4 weeks or there abouts.
[/quote]

Can you elaborate on this?


#10

[quote]Admad wrote:
I’ll ignore one comment that’s been posted as that individual obviously has no idea about gear.

[/quote]

if this comment is directed at Walkway, you’re 100% incorrect. He knows more about steroids than you can imagine. Aren’t you the one who just lost all his steroid gains in a fucking month? Maybe, just maybe, you’re the one who doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.


#11

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Admad wrote:
I’ll ignore one comment that’s been posted as that individual obviously has no idea about gear.

[/quote]

if this comment is directed at Walkway, you’re 100% incorrect. He knows more about steroids than you can imagine. Aren’t you the one who just lost all his steroid gains in a fucking month? Maybe, just maybe, you’re the one who doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.[/quote]

^ This.

“Hey guys just lost all my gains when I stopped cycling but I know what I’m doing and you don’t.”

lol.


#12

[quote]nooberific wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Admad wrote:
I’ll ignore one comment that’s been posted as that individual obviously has no idea about gear.

[/quote]

if this comment is directed at Walkway, you’re 100% incorrect. He knows more about steroids than you can imagine. Aren’t you the one who just lost all his steroid gains in a fucking month? Maybe, just maybe, you’re the one who doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.[/quote]

^ This.

“Hey guys just lost all my gains when I stopped cycling but I know what I’m doing and you don’t.”

lol.[/quote]

haha people get turned off by his tone but miss out on good info. i think it’s funny.

one thing walkway would probably tell you is that you shouldn’t cycle steroids, you should blast and cruise. this will solve your issue. fix your diet and you might even continue to make gains your first couple cruises. i did.


#13

[quote]joyfull wrote:

[quote]nooberific wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Admad wrote:
I’ll ignore one comment that’s been posted as that individual obviously has no idea about gear.

[/quote]

if this comment is directed at Walkway, you’re 100% incorrect. He knows more about steroids than you can imagine. Aren’t you the one who just lost all his steroid gains in a fucking month? Maybe, just maybe, you’re the one who doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.[/quote]

^ This.

“Hey guys just lost all my gains when I stopped cycling but I know what I’m doing and you don’t.”

lol.[/quote]

haha people get turned off by his tone but miss out on good info. i think it’s funny.

one thing walkway would probably tell you is that you shouldn’t cycle steroids, you should blast and cruise. this will solve your issue. fix your diet and you might even continue to make gains your first couple cruises. i did.
[/quote]

OP’s comment was directed at me?? lol…

maybe he just didn’t appreciate the way I presented my point of view…

here’s an analogy - your body is like a high-performance automobile… you want to go faster (gain muscle), so you add NOS (steroids). the NOS makes you go faster than you’ve ever gone before - you’ve achieved a new level of speed that you’ve previously been unable to reach.

however, when you stop the NOS, what happens? your automobile begins to slow down… it doesn’t immediately return to it’s previous (Pre-NOS) speed, but it will be there eventually.

what’s more, the usage of NOS likely damages some parts in the vehicle, so not only will you not be able to go as fast when you were using NOS, your pre-NOS top speed will likely be even lower - each cycle chips away at your HPTA’s ability to recover, and your natural testosterone production will become lower, and lower, with each cycle.

add NOS, go faster… use more and more NOS, and go even faster. Upregulation of androgen receptors means you will need to use more steroids in order to achieve the rate of growth that you had on lower doses - I.E. you grow quickly on 500mg test, your AR upregulate, so you must now use 1000mg of test in order to grow at same rate as with 500mg.

in short, any gains that you made with steroids will diminish once you stop using them. it may take months, but eventually, it will happen. this is why I advocate blast and cruise.

BONEZ (an old poster) was not a fan of advocating B/C, though he used that method himself. He recommended gaining naturally, and using AAS when dieting to help preserve muscle.

but I digress.


#14

Nooberific and flipvolar - if you’ve got nothing constructive to add to this forum kindly fuck off. This may seem rude but my time Is far to valuable for it to be wasted with pointless comments like that.

Just because I’ve lost a lot of the gains I made doesn’t mean my level of knowledge about aas is bad. Far from it. I spend months researching any compound before I put anything into my body. Secondly everybody is different, some people will lose gains quicker than other people, unfortunately that’s life. I was trying to get some opinions to see if and where I was going wrong, potentially in my diet or training.


#15

[quote]Mr.Walkway wrote:
Upregulation of androgen receptors means you will need to use more steroids in order to achieve the rate of growth that you had on lower doses - I.E. you grow quickly on 500mg test, your AR upregulate, so you must now use 1000mg of test in order to grow at same rate as with 500mg. [/quote]

Hey Walkway, doesn’t upregulation of androgen receptors mean there will be a higher response to the same amount of steroids?


#16

[quote]Admad wrote:
Nooberific and flipvolar - if you’ve got nothing constructive to add to this forum kindly fuck off. This may seem rude but my time Is far to valuable for it to be wasted with pointless comments like that.

Just because I’ve lost a lot of the gains I made doesn’t mean my level of knowledge about aas is bad. Far from it. I spend months researching any compound before I put anything into my body. Secondly everybody is different, some people will lose gains quicker than other people, unfortunately that’s life. I was trying to get some opinions to see if and where I was going wrong, potentially in my diet or training. [/quote]

You are free to fuck off and spend your time somewhere else.


#17

Time is too valuable… smh. Whatever man. Flipcollar is one of the most knowledgable lifters on this forum, and not just with steriod usage. I haven’t been around long enough to read enough of Walkway’s posts but if dt79 and flipcollar are backing him, I only feel inclined to hop on that bandwagon.


#18

[quote]Admad wrote:
Nooberific and flipvolar - if you’ve got nothing constructive to add to this forum kindly fuck off. This may seem rude but my time Is far to valuable for it to be wasted with pointless comments like that.

Just because I’ve lost a lot of the gains I made doesn’t mean my level of knowledge about aas is bad. Far from it. I spend months researching any compound before I put anything into my body. Secondly everybody is different, some people will lose gains quicker than other people, unfortunately that’s life. I was trying to get some opinions to see if and where I was going wrong, potentially in my diet or training. [/quote]

OH MY GOD I DIDN’T REALIZE I’M SO SORRRY!!!

Hey guys, Mr. Admad is big and important. YOU GUYZ!!! We can’t waste his time! He’s got THINGS to do! THINGS!!! I don’t even think he’ll have time to read this! I hope he does though, I’m so sorry!!!

Nobody gives a fuck Admad. Don’t pretend reading my 2 sentence reply wasted so much of your valuable time. It didn’t. You’re just butt hurt because I told you the truth. I’ve run 2 cycles, and set PR’s while off-cycle both times. I’m off right now, and set a deadlift PR last night. You can’t even hold onto the gains you made.


#19

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]joyfull wrote:

[quote]nooberific wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Admad wrote:
I’ll ignore one comment that’s been posted as that individual obviously has no idea about gear.

[/quote]

if this comment is directed at Walkway, you’re 100% incorrect. He knows more about steroids than you can imagine. Aren’t you the one who just lost all his steroid gains in a fucking month? Maybe, just maybe, you’re the one who doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.[/quote]

^ This.

“Hey guys just lost all my gains when I stopped cycling but I know what I’m doing and you don’t.”

lol.[/quote]

haha people get turned off by his tone but miss out on good info. i think it’s funny.

one thing walkway would probably tell you is that you shouldn’t cycle steroids, you should blast and cruise. this will solve your issue. fix your diet and you might even continue to make gains your first couple cruises. i did.
[/quote]

OP’s comment was directed at me?? lol…

maybe he just didn’t appreciate the way I presented my point of view…

here’s an analogy - your body is like a high-performance automobile… you want to go faster (gain muscle), so you add NOS (steroids). the NOS makes you go faster than you’ve ever gone before - you’ve achieved a new level of speed that you’ve previously been unable to reach.

however, when you stop the NOS, what happens? your automobile begins to slow down… it doesn’t immediately return to it’s previous (Pre-NOS) speed, but it will be there eventually.

what’s more, the usage of NOS likely damages some parts in the vehicle, so not only will you not be able to go as fast when you were using NOS, your pre-NOS top speed will likely be even lower - each cycle chips away at your HPTA’s ability to recover, and your natural testosterone production will become lower, and lower, with each cycle.

add NOS, go faster… use more and more NOS, and go even faster. Upregulation of androgen receptors means you will need to use more steroids in order to achieve the rate of growth that you had on lower doses - I.E. you grow quickly on 500mg test, your AR upregulate, so you must now use 1000mg of test in order to grow at same rate as with 500mg.

in short, any gains that you made with steroids will diminish once you stop using them. it may take months, but eventually, it will happen. this is why I advocate blast and cruise.

BONEZ (an old poster) was not a fan of advocating B/C, though he used that method himself. He recommended gaining naturally, and using AAS when dieting to help preserve muscle.

but I digress. [/quote]

I really miss Bonez. His posts were straight to the core truth and his style was awesome. For a long time I thought he was a buddy of mine that was our medic in Iraq (verified that it is not).

Your analogy is great Walkaway. I’ve yet to do a blast and cruise but may give that a shot coming up which begs another question. If blasting and cruising do you use HCG the entire time. I’m sure the dosage varies during the blast and cruise but logically I assume you do use HCG the entire time.


#20

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Admad wrote:
Nooberific and flipvolar - if you’ve got nothing constructive to add to this forum kindly fuck off. This may seem rude but my time Is far to valuable for it to be wasted with pointless comments like that.

Just because I’ve lost a lot of the gains I made doesn’t mean my level of knowledge about aas is bad. Far from it. I spend months researching any compound before I put anything into my body. Secondly everybody is different, some people will lose gains quicker than other people, unfortunately that’s life. I was trying to get some opinions to see if and where I was going wrong, potentially in my diet or training. [/quote]

OH MY GOD I DIDN’T REALIZE I’M SO SORRRY!!!

Hey guys, Mr. Admad is big and important. YOU GUYZ!!! We can’t waste his time! He’s got THINGS to do! THINGS!!! I don’t even think he’ll have time to read this! I hope he does though, I’m so sorry!!!

Nobody gives a fuck Admad. Don’t pretend reading my 2 sentence reply wasted so much of your valuable time. It didn’t. You’re just butt hurt because I told you the truth. I’ve run 2 cycles, and set PR’s while off-cycle both times. I’m off right now, and set a deadlift PR last night. You can’t even hold onto the gains you made.
[/quote]

Wow. I thought he was busy, but I didn’t know he had to do THINGS!

Sorry Admad! I failed to appreciate the value of a person’s time when he actually has THINGS to do!