For a long time I have just been to damn trigger shy to run Deca. I have numerous cycles under my belt and tren is one of my favorites. I have finally decided to half the difference and run NPP instead of Deca. That way if anything fishy happens I can clear my system fairly quickly.
I will be running the NPP at 350mgs a week and I have a total of four bottles of the standard 10cc at 100mgs. So I could up the dosage and run a shorter cycle but as it stands I will be looking at about 12 weeks. I am planning the test to be at 600-700 mgs a week but can go higher if so recommended. I have plenty of AI (adex and aromasin) on hand and will be running the dose as if I was doing this cycle with EQ instead of npp as I understand it the aromatization is about equal to EQ. I have caper on hand but will also be taking B6 for it’s anti progesterone qualities. I will be running the test at least two to three weeks past the NPP. Also I am still up in the air if I will PCT or do a cruise after the cycle. I am waiting on the dates for a few up coming events and that will influence my plans.
I have some elbow pain from what the doctor says are chipped elbows (the x Ray’s show it), it happened in the army well before AAS usage. I am hoping the NPP will help my collagen and tendons. I am not having issues with dry beat up joints but I figure that due to cycle history it is about time I take a cycle with them in mind versus dry gaining cycles I tend to gravitate towards.
I am contemplating adding in a DHT as I absolutely love trifecta stacks with tren as my 19-nor. My concern is weather the DHT will counteract the collagen and tendons benefits the NPP can provide. Again I am not having issues with anything I just figure I should give them some love before I go too far with my dry gaining cycles.
Available DHTs I can add in are Proviron, oral winny, oil suspended winny, masteron, 1-test (Dhb) or primo. But I am very hesitant about the primo as that would mean I have two compounds in my cycle that I have never used before.
I am fairly sure the Proviron will not counteract the collagen and tendon benefits of the NPP but I would rather get in put from someone who has experience.
Right now the first dht choice I reviewed to add in was winny. It has anti estrogen and supposed anti progesterone qualities but it is harsh on joints and the liver. It is also known to make tendons brittle so the NPP benefits might just counteract that but ultimately provide no net gain or benefit to me. My second thought was the masteron. I have used it with EQ before and it helped keep my gains lean. I am just not sure how it might interact with the college’s and tendon benefits. The 1-test (Dhb) is something I just can’t find too much info on, I love it but just not to much out there in the way of clinical research to provide info.
I am in my later 30s with numerous cycles under my belt. I have experience with every compound mentioned except the NPP and Primo.
So do I add in a DHT and go for my first ever “wet” trifecta? (Again I LOVE running trifectas with tren) Any thoughts, comments or insight would be greatly appreciated!
First instinct was Anavar, but then I read what your options are. I’m contemplating the exact same thing, btw, and I’ve had NPP sitting there for months now and just haven’t pulled the trigger.
Proviron would be great for the small AI effect it has and as a bonus is not hepatotoxic. But I do t know that anyone gets any actual gains from it, rather you hear guys talk about how it “dries” them out. I could see how that would be attractive paired with NPP.
Winstrol is probably bad for the exact reason you stated. You don’t want to negate the positive effects of nandrolone by making your freshly-lubed tendons brittle again.
Primo is likely safe to add, even though two new compounds at once is generally not advised. Because it’s so mild I imagine you’d be ok taking a chance on it. The problem is the amount needed and the time that it allegedly has to be run in order to really shine. I don’t know if 12 weeks is long enough. I don’t know that it isn’t long enough either, but anecdotally guys run it 16-20.
I know very little about masteron, but it’s supposed to be magic for guys who are lean already.
DHB is really interesting. It’s structurally similar to primo, on a chemical level. All I know about it is that guys talk about the PIP being nearly crippling and the results—if they can survive the pain—are excellent. I think it’s tricky because the supply of it is limited when compared to other options, so finding a legit source is maybe a bit harder than something more abundant like winstrol or masteron.
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If size is your goal why not run a Test/NPP/Mast cycle with Dbol? The first time I ran Dbol I got small gyno lumps about pea sized. Next time I ran Mast with it and it prevented any gyno and let me make the gains I wanted.
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Iron, I swear somehow we have to have gone through the same life experiences without ever meeting, I do have anavar it just totally slipped my mind when I wrote my thread. To be fair it’s not a whole lot of anavar, my usage tends to be for about four weeks at a time to finish a cycle strong when I get to a plateau with injectables. Now I need to go read up.
Hammer, right after I wrote the thread I started thinking more and I do have EQ, dbol, and turinobol available right now. I actually started to lay out a cycle where I started with the test, npp, mast and dbol. Have you ever read about mast being harder on tendons?
I have it in my head that DHTs by their very nature counteract the collagen and possibly the tendon benefits of the wet compounds. At this point in this life I have read so much it all ends up a bit jumbled and contradicting itself.
Do all DHTs counteract the collagen and tendon benefits or is it really just a winny trait that gets associated with it’s cousins?
I have read that when someone does a 2 to 1 ratio of test to nadrolone that the Androgenic nature of the corresponding DHT resulting from the test ends up counteracting the collagen benefits. Does anyone know anything about this? Or is it just another bro science tidbit that gets bounced around?
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Winny is the one that comes to mind on making tendons brittle. I have both rotator cuffs repaired and I didn’t feel any negative effects from the mast
Thank you that actually makes it feel like mast is my best choice given my choices versus concerns.
I tend to tell guys your choices in this will end up being dictated by your wallet and what is available. Maybe I should add in “the negative side effects that you want to avoid.”
Bringing up and old thread here but @now_i_care how did your npp experience go?
SB
Ok I started with the NPP and test. Npp at 350mg per week and test 400mgs per week. I waited a few weeks to start the mast, I wanted it run with the test well past the NPP by a few weeks. I just don’t remember how many. I also added in dbol and I should be better about logging this stuff but it is just not a priority, I don’t remember if the dbol was a starter or an add in late in the cycle. I am fairly sure it was late in the cycle because I have just about always run my orals at the end to help push for that strong finish.
All that said it was a great cycle. I definitely remember feeling just damn good when the dbol was in the mix. My elbows felt great. I was able to finally “prove” to myself the pain I have been dealing with here and there is from a chipped elbow and not something else like damaged cartilage or something like that. On a side note with realizing that I have been able to restructure my workouts to avoid the elbow pain. It took a little while to figure out what would work to help me keep building but I did and I am still developing and the elbow pain is all but gone. There are a few things here and there that make it hurt but overall it’s a world of difference.
So yeah great cycle with good development that ultimately led to knowledge that I am very happy to have obtained. I actually have decided that NPP will be in the regular rotation now but I still won’t touch Deca, just can’t bring myself to.
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Mesterolone isn’t an aromatase inhibitor, rather it antagonises the effect of oestrogen at receptor level (has affinity for the ER, similarly to pure DHT, thus antagonises the effect of E in tissues with ER via competitive inhibition). Gains from mesterolone should be practically non-existent, affinity for 3-HSD in skeletal/cardiac muscle converts said compound into inactive metabolites once reaching AR in skeletal muscle, thus direct hypertrophic stimuli should be nil/none, increased nitrogen retention (a trait of AAS that contributes greatly to the anabolic stimuli of anabolic steroids) has been noted in individuals given high doses of mestanolone (c17aa DHT) thus there is still likely SOME semblance of anabolism with anabolics with affinity too 3-HSD, however the oral bioavailability of mesterolone is roughly 3%, so imagine how little amount of pure hormone one is getting, I’d garner the majority of the effects one gets from mestanolone are related to competitive inhibition of aromatase and neurological (effect on neurotransmission, hence increased libido, alpha feeling etc)
Sort of, primo is a DERIVITAVE of DHB, it’s more like… proviron if proviron was derived from DHB. Proviron is 1a methyl DHT, primo is 1a methyl DHB. DHB, unlike DHT, (probably) has no affinity for 3-HSD, DHT does, hence why proviron/DHT aren’t inherently anabolic while DHB and primo aren’t. However DHB is used to synthethise primo.
2a methyl DHT, little affinity for 3-HSD and is thus anabolic within skeletal muscle tissue.
@now_i_care
Many thanks for that detailed information. In terms of gains, how much weight did you gain in terms of LBM? What was the water retention like?
SB