So I got my hands on these lovely products. But I have a couple questions.
500mg Test Cyp 400mg Eq
I also have 50 tablets of Var(25mg each)
I will be running a 10 week cycle have both Nolva and Clomid ready for PCT.
I'm thinking of using the Var at the start of the cycle until the Test/Eq kicks in. I realize that the EQ will take a while to kick in, and I can expect the Test to kick in in 2-3 weeks. So would it be better to use the var for the first 3 weeks or better at the end? I'm thinking the start since strength will kick in soon and by the time I get off the Test will start to 'work'.
My second question, should I use 10mg Nolva a day while on cycle? or is this unnecessary?
Oh and heres what I'm thinking of the Var dosage:
50mg for the first 4 days 75mg for the 14 days after
So after some thought, I think I'm going to frontload the EQ the first week. I'm going to run the Var at 50mg a day for the first 13 days and then 75mg for 8 days. I'd really like to get more input from you guys, I'd really appreciate it.
I have ran test cyp and eq at 750mg and 600mg respectively, for a total of 12 weeks.
I gained moderately - no better than if i used 750mg test cyp alone actually. I am not an eq fan and it will not be used by me again - until competitive cycles.
Var as a kick start? Uh.. if you like, but prepare to be disappointed. Also you mentioned that the cyp will take 4 weeks or so to kick in, but IME it is a fair amount longer... often 5-6 weeks, although i do know this is totally personal.
Eq is a very poor builder and in my personal experience and in the experiences i have read about, it is only effective in a very low body fat physique.
Frontload the eq and the test for peak blood levels and a much shorter wait till peak effect - and if it is muscle you are after i truly believe that there is no better stack than a testosterone and a nandrolone, whatever ester.
There is no use in tapering up the var dosage - keep it stable, unless you are finding your own personal tolerance to sides - such as painful pumps.
Eq wont cause any estrogenic side effects, but test is highly likely to.. 10mg of nolvadex is unlikely to help with that IMO, many cant get by on just 20mg of nolvadex.. and it does nothing for reducing estrogen to safe levels, only antagonises the receptors at specific sites - such as breast. An aromatase inhibitor is needed to control the levels of estrogen in your body, a necessity for safe, effective and controlled AAS use these days.
All in all i cant see why you would stack eq and var together - and then with cyp.. what results are you after? I get the impression you are only using these drugs by default not by design.
First off, thanks for your reply and input. I was originally planning on running just the Test and EQ for 10 weeks. However since I'm using esterfied compounds I had heard good things about Var in regard to strength gains(rather than size). I'm mainly utilizing the EQ for soft tissue support and eythropoetin elevation not so much for aesthetics. I'm sub 10% bodyfat right now so that's not an issue. I was thinking of using test prop, but I don't want to deal with ED or EOD injections as I train quite often and don't want to constantly have injection site pain.
In terms of the EQ, I only want to frontload it not the cyp. What I was thinking of doing was the following since the half- life of EQ is 8 days. Since I plan on using 400mg EQ a week, two 200mg dosages a week. To front load it I was going to do the following 457 + 200 which is approximately 700mg for the first injection. Then all subsequent injections would be 200mg.
Where I got 457:
Since the half life is about 8 days, I multiplied it by intended weekly dosage(400mg) and then divided the total by 7(a week).
I guess since I don't seem to have enough var to run it for more than 25 days, I'll prob just use it as a kickstart for strength rather than a drying/cutting compound. But back to the frontloading, it seems theoretically sound.
Ultimately I want to keep 15 solid pounds and up my strength and I think this cycle will accomplish this. Any further feedback is greatly appreciated it. Thanks.
Oh as for Deca, I dont want to deal with the excessive bloat and or detection time. I know this might sound funny, but this will likely be my only cycle.
Deca doesnt give excessive bloat, but i really wasnt intending to convince you of using it instead, more to say that if you want size then the cycle could be better.
If you dont want excessive bloat you will need to look into controlling your estrogen levels, and look elsewhere than a SERM.
Your cycle can help you achieve that goal of keeping 15lbs, but that will be decided by diet and recovery. Not by eq and var inclusion.
I am not clear as to why you are not wanting to frontload the cyp, i cant see why you wouldnt do so if you are a believer in frontloading, as you clearly are.
If you were to use 200mg of eq 2x/wk with no frontload, then peak blood levels would not be reached till week 7. If you were to inject 675mg on day one, and a further 200mg on day 4 then 200mg 2x/wk thereafter - you would have peak levels from day one. Cyp would take till week 6 to achieve peak levels, and frontloading with 725mg in the first injection would achieve peak levels from day one - if you desired.
Hmm, from what I've heard the test will kick in much sooner and its effects will be more dramatic than EQ's. I guess thats why people run EQ for a longer time. Honestly I'm afraid to even frontload the EQ, but its kind of making sense at this point and since its sides are less severe than Test I guess I'm willing to take that risk. Whereas if I front load the test I'll be gambling on two fronts.
As i already wrote - based on proper half-life calculations over an 8 week period on roid.com - the Test will of course kick in sooner than the Eq. This is due to the simple kinetics of the drugs and esters. Cypionate has less carbon atoms than Undeclynate, so the Esterase enzyme takes less time to break the chain down to release the drug in full.
And of course Testosterone will be much more dramatic than Boldenone, Test is one of the more dramatic AAS available, while Bold is one of the least effective ones available IMPE! But that is not about to change your physique overnight. When the changes occur over several weeks, they can often be excused.
The reason people run Eq for a longer time is of course because it takes longer for peak blood levels to build. But frontloading changes this fact wholly.. Saying that i am coming from primarily a BB standpoint, you mentioned health and fitness benefits - which i am not versed with.
Now the last statement you make is a little cloudy - you say you are willing to frontload the Eq due to the reduced occurance of sides, which it understandable for a newbie, but with that comes a massively reduced ability to provide gains, that is to say, there are so little that when stacked with a drug like test, eq doesnt provide ANY noticeable growth in the stack. But you stated this isnt the reason you are using it - so i dont understand why one would frontload it as the effects you desire(EPO and connective tissue benefits) will be there at the lower doses. it is a bit of a waste of money as far as i can see. As for being afraid of the test blowing you up or showering crazy sides down on you when frontloaded you are mistaken - besides you would have all the necessary ancillary drugs on hand or being used to counter the sides test gives wouldnt you?
It has been mentioned on many occasions by myself that you need an AI and you are yet to acknowledge that fact - now you seem to be choosing var and eq (both ridiculously mild anabolics) due to their mildness in side effects, and you seem very cautious and aware of the sides of test, yet you are not really committing ton reduce those sides, and want to get away with not frontloading or something. You are likely to get gyno on 500mg/wk with only 10mg of nolva. You will definitely have too high an estrogen level which will have a part to play in prostate hypertrophy, mood swings etc.
Frontloading isnt going to be like taking a dose of 675mg a week.. it is like taking 500mg/wk over a number of weeks.. so as you can see you arent going to get a massive rise in sides compared to what you will get anyway over the next 6 weeks. You are simply ensuring you have peak blood levels for 500mg/wk from the first shot. To further make you feel better... of a 500mg/wk dose only around 60-70mg is actually active!
I suspect you seem to be very set in your decisions and concerns, but please think on it - just to get the most out of your cycle. I am not a fan of the cycle you have chosen really, and i think a 350mg/wk cycle over 12 weeks would attain your goals, be more natural looking and easier to maintain.
First off, thanks again. I really appreciate the feedback. I guess my logic for not frontloading the test, is that the body will likely gradually adapt to the levels of test over the first 2-3 week period vs being faced with peak levels from the start. But since EQ is much milder and takes longer to kick in, I was thinking it would be better to just frontload it. I am a newbie, so I'm not sure hence why I'm asking you gentlemen.
As for having an AI on hand, sadly I'd really like to obtain some arimidex but I have no way of doing so. I'll be running B3, saw palm, B6, cissus, liver support, red rice yeast all while on cycle as well, ill also be upping my omega 3-6-9 dosage. But yes, if I could find somewhere to obtain the arimidex I would definitely get some.
Adex is available and inexpensive through various chemical research labs. This is a loophole in the law which allows these internet based companies to provide these substances for "research purposes". You can do a google search or a search for chem research labs on this site. Several have been mentioned. If you know someone posting here for a while you can PM that individual for info.
I enjoy reading Brook's advice, lots of knowledge being passed out. I have run a fair share of test/eq cycles with very good success. I have never experiemented with var, but I do like to kick start my bulking cycles with d-bol for 3-4 weeks while waiting for the test and eq to kick in.
I'm not an advocate of deca, due to my recovery time post cycle issues and the detection time of the compound. Many like the product, and I do not knock it, just not for me.
I am presently running 600mg/wk of test along with 450mg/wk of Eq. I have gained 15 lbs in the 6 weeks I have been on, and will continue to run it for 6 more weeks.
I agree with brook, an AI is needed, especially if you want to run anything more harsh than var or eq.
Ok I think I'm about to finalize everything on this cycle, after some more research.
weeks 1-10 500mg Test C(250mg 2x a week) weeks 1-9 400mg EQ(I will be frontolading the EQ first injection 700mg, 200mg 2x a week) weeks 1-4 50mg Anavar ED weeks 1-10 1g propecia ED weeks 2-10 10mg Aromasin ED
I was originially going to run .5mg Adex EOD, but it seems that Aromasin may be better.It also seems to have the added benefit of stimiluating LH production and isn't harsh on IGF-1 and Lipid profiles.
Concerns? Thoughts? Will Aromasin possibly have a negative affect on hair?
Maybe I just run the aromasin the last 2-3 weeks of my cycle? and into the first 2 weeks of PCT?
I've heard that clomid might be useful in stimulating fsh and lh? Would there be an issue using it? I'll have it anyway. As for the use of aromasin.... the more I thought about it it might make moe sense to run in the last 2 weeks of my cycle, the 2 weeks after the cycle concludes and then the first 2 weeks of PCT. What are your thoughts brook? This way I'll have a great AI on hand in case anything happens on cycle, while at the same time I've heard that nolva/aromasin for PCT is great.
Aromasin is a fine AI for use during your cycle to prevent aromatisation of estrogen from the high test. It, along with Arimidex or Letrozole can be used to help recovery post cycle.
Clomid and nolvadex both help to stimulate the HPTA a little, and both by the same means i believe.
Many suggest that clomid is better for recovery and nolva is better for estrogen blocking, but in reality it is a personal preference. Many seem to find Clomiphene to hold unpleasant emotional side effects - Nolva is my preference.. cheaper, lower doses needed (thus no emo problems) and just as effective. Both is not necessary.
There is no issue with using the clomid other than the fact you are wasting money, using too much of an estrogen (yes, an estrogen..) than is necessary, and Clomid alone is known to cause mood swings and emotional upset due to dose - so adding further SERM will not be a great idea.. not to mention the fact that no SERM is even needed due to the Aromasin!
Why does it only make sense to run an AI the last 2 weeks of the cycle and into recovery? Why not throughout to keep estrogen controlled? Estrogen is necessary for growth and health in the Male. But it is not necessary to have it elevated even a little, but it definitely will if you inject Testosterone.
It is estrogen that causes negative feedback, and AFAIK this is the reason that AI's and SERM's both stimulate the recovery of a suppressed HPTA - and why it is unnecessary to use 3 different drugs that are doing very similar things.
I could understand an AI and a SERM - although it isnt common, and only one is just as effective - but an AI and 2 SERM's is simply throwing everything at the problem due to not knowing the correct method to use. It is not educated, it is wasting money, drugs and it is also unhealthy.
You DO know that aromasin will NOT be stimulating LH production during your cycle or in the 2 weeks following it dont you? It reads to me that you are trying to recover before you have dropped the exogenous androgen level in your body..
It is like using Test Acetate, Prop and Phenylprop to make sure it works! No..
Ok scratch the the double serm idea, in fact I'm glad. I don't even want to deal with possibility of these emo sides while on clomid. I think the cycle is now in place(I think I'm going to run 400mg of test instead of 500mg), now I'm still unsure about the PCT. I tend to be a bit paranoid/ocd when it comes to everything.
The Aromasin is a good bit more expensive than some Arimidex, but from what I've read about it it seems to be a much better drug. I can obtain 30 25mg doses of Aromasin for about 80 bucks. However I can obtain 30mg of Arimidex for about 60 bucks. That in mind, I would have no problem running the Adex throughout the cycle and also during PCT.
Now as to why I'm leaning toward the Aromasin. For one it doesn't have a negative affect on lipid profiles and doesnt casuse any sort of joint pain(some of the issues with Adex.
Furthermore since Aromasin is a type 1 inhibitor rather than a type 2, it acts by directly making the estrogen ineffective whereas the Adex stops test to estrogen conversion. In addition Adex has a negative effect on nolvas effectiveness, so that would also be a problem.
The reason I'd prefer to run both an AI and a serm during PCT, is because the Nolva/Clomid will not doing anything to reduce estrogen levels it will simply be preventing receptor bondage. But the Aromasin will indeed reduce the levels directly, so a double whammy effect .
So at this point, the clomid is out. So I guess now what I'm trying to decide is whether the possible benefit of running adex throughout my cycle outweighs the benefit of running the aromasin only when needed during my cycle(IE a gyno flare up) and definitely during my PCT(which it seems to be very good for).
At this point this is what I'm probably going to do, as one of my friends is going to be running the same cycle. I think I'll buy both.
I'll run .25mg of Adex EOD during the cycle, starting week 3 of the cycle until completion. Then I will run 20mg Aromasin as well as Nolva for PCT. So brook, here its how its looking.
weeks 1-10 Test Cyp at 400mg(Do you think that 100mg is going to make a difference?) weeks 1-9 EQ at 400mg (frontloading the EQ) weeks 1-4 50mg Var ED
same supplements to aid during the cycle
weeks 3-10 .25mg Adex EOD, possibly up it to .5mg if need be.
wait 10 days then begin PCT which will be:
Nolva 40/20/20/20/10 (week 5 is tentative) Aromasin 20/20/x/x/x
Ultimate goal is to gain and keep 15lbs and up strength. At the moment
6' 1/2 inch 178lbs sub 10%bf
current lifts: bench 270---> 315+ squat 285---> 315+ deadlift 425---> high 400's
I think I can do this with the cycle.
(I lift 3-4 days a week) chest/tri I'll also do some forearm/calf work on this day back/bi(dumbell deadlifts as a supplement to legs as well on this day) legs(squats, leg, press, lunges, extensions, jump squats) shoulders/traps(clean and presses incorporated on this day, as well as calves, forearm work)
Train Thai Boxing 3-4 days a week Grapple 2-3 days a week
If everything looks good to you guys, I should be starting this early January and I will keep a log. Any more advice is greatly appreciated, thanks.
oh could anyone pm me a site to possibly get the Adex and Aromasin something youve used before, thanks.