Im a 192 lbs, 36 and 5’ 11’'. I started my first cycle small of
150mm of Primo/EQ/Test every week (one shot every 3 days). Im also taking an estrogen blocker every other day. I havent taken a shot in a few days (on purpose).
Ive been doing it for 12 weeks. Ive gained size and strength but feel like im not doing it right. This cycle was recommended to me by a professional body building but I feel like my results can be a lot better.
Am I taking too small of doses? Should I stop and start a PCT cycle then start again 6 weeks out?
What is the amount of each hormone? Saying 150 of three different hormones is pretty vague. The bottle should tell you how many mgs per hormone per ml or cc.
Is this a blend? Or are you measuring out the equivalent of 50mgs of each and pinning that every 3 days?
Just pretend I am stupid and explain what exactly you are pinning every three days.
With these UGL products it’s is pretty easy for someone to not fully understand what you are using exactly and then give advice that ends up working against you.
Is the primo attached to the acetate ester or the enanthate ester?
Sorry to be clear- I was doing measuring out .75 and doing it twice a week of each three. I also have been taking an estrogen blocker. The test was with test sus.
Ive done this for about 3 months. I have gained some muscle weight and strength. I went from about 185 lbs to about 193 now.
Ok… I think we’re clear now.
75mg of Eq
75mg of Test
75mg of Primo all 2X/wk for a total of 150mg of each per week.
Right off the bat I don’t think you’re Test dosage should be higher; closer to twice what you’re currently taking. A general recommendation is to start Test at 500 mg/wk but personally I’ve had good results with dosages as low as 300mg/wk.
If this is your first cycle I would seriously consider dropping the Primo and Eq and saving whatever you have left for another run.
So you are measuring 0.75 cc/ml for every shot of each hormone two times per week?
OR ARE YOU
Measuring out the equivalent of 75mgs of each hormone and injecting that twice a week?
Either way if you are at 12 weeks or three months I would PCT now.
Everyone’s first cycle should always be just testosterone. Really for 90% of us testosterone will work for everything we want to achieve. So just try a legitimate amount of testosterone for your next cycle, really anything above 250mgs per week should work wonders.
When you say an estrogen blocker you could be referring to two different things. One a SERM or Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator which attached to certain tissues in place of the estrogen thus not allowing the estrogen to attach and effect that tissue, usually used for gyno issues and regularly used for PCT. Nolvadex and Clomid are the two common ones.
Two, an Aromatase Inhibitor or AI, this attached to the Aromatase enzyme so that the enzyme cannot turn out testosterone (and other wet compounds) into estrogen. The three common ones are arimidex, aromasin and femara.
This world of AAS or anabolic Androgenic steroids is rather complicated. I urge you to read and read and read. You will catch on as to how we write things so others can answer our questions.
As far you wanting more results. I am still not clear on your dosage. However you seem to be at a very low dose. If you want better results next cycle then bring the testosterone up and only use testosterone for the first couple of cycles. The other part of this and really the MORE important part is you eating, sleeping and training. If you can’t gain without steroids then you probably won’t gain with them. The gym is where we break our muscles, sleep is where we build bigger muscles and food is how we fuel the process. Steroids just help us get a little more return for our effort. They are not miracle drugs and they only return to you what you put into the cycle. So look at your diet, sleep patterns and training if you want better results. A good rule of thumb is one gram of protein for every pound you weigh, that is if you want to gain.
So you were taking
150mgs of EQ
90mgs of sustanon
75mgs of primo
For each shot day and you did this twice a week for a total of
300mgs of EQ
180mgs of sustanon
150mgs of primo
Per week.
You are definitely on a lower end dose. However I would think you should have had better results. Chances are you are using UGL gear and it’s under dosed. UGL stands for Under Ground Lab. Basically if you don’t buy it from a pharmacy yourself then it is UGL even if it says phizer or Bayer on it chances are it’s a fake name brand.
With what you took you definitely had a mix for lean muscle mass, chances are you will keep 90% of what you built on cycle and that is what you should always judge a cycle by. A lot of guys want lots of test, deca a and dbol which gets the scale moving but once they off cycle they lose a HUGE amount of what they put on during the cycle.
Now yes you could have probably built more but you had such a low low dose I think you did well. Since it has been about 3 months and I assume your bottles are almost empty then finish them and PCT with Nolvadex or clomid.
Keep going to the gym during PCT this is VERY important! Then about 3 months down the road you can think about another properly doses cycle.
I recommend a simple testosterone only cycle dosed at at least 250mgs per week, you can go as high as 500 mgs per week and be ok. I think 400-500 is a good range for you to judge how to adjust future cycles. Do that cycle for about 12 weeks. I bet you will have better results.
I keep adding comments because I am not sure if I edit and add that you will see it.
This is very important. If you do not plan on staying on testosterone replacement therapy for the rest of your life then you need to properly PCT and recover. Like is said depending on how much is left you can finish your bottles but there is no reason to adjust the dosage you don’t have longer enough time for a higher dose to kick in. I would not stay on your current cycle for longer than 15 weeks. If you plan on using testosterone for the rest of your life then it’s a different story.
PCT requires either Nolvadex or clomid. Some guys react to clomid so I suggest Nolvadex. Take 40mgs per day for two weeks then take 20mgs per day for two weeks. Once this is done you need to wait three months before you use steroids again. A good rule of thumb is you stay off as long as you were on. So if you did a 4 month cycle then you need 4 months off. PCT does not count as off time! You need to follow this unless you want to HAVE to use testosterone for the rest of your life!
Thank you so much for all the information. It helped massively.
I have clomid 50 mg pills which I can start taking now. One a day?
Question- I was taking aromasin 25 (half a pill every other day) while I finished that cycle. Im guessing based on your info I dont need to take that along side the clomid. How long should I take the clomid?
The reason I started smaller is because I wanted to see how my body would react to the smaller doses.
Next time around Ill start at 250/week of just test to start. How soon would I start a PCT on just test? Or would it be right after the 12 weeks?
Ok with clomid you can try 100mgs a day for the first few days and see if you act emotional like a pregnant chic. If you feel ok then 100mgs a day for two weeks then 50mgs a day for two weeks. To be honest I am not up on clomid PCT because I reacted to it my first PCT and have left it alone ever since. Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in about clomid PCT. PCT needs to be at least four weeks, no matter what it needs to be at least four weeks. It can be longer if you feel you might need it but it has to be at least four weeks. Since you have longer esters in your cycle then going for a five weeks PCT might be a good idea.
Even if you take PCT drugs the day after you inject a long ester steroid the PCT drugs can not do their job until the amount of steroids in your body is low enough. So again with your extra long esters going to a five week PCT might be a good idea because the first week the clomid might still have to work against the residual sustanon and or EQ.
Since you have been taking EQ and Sustanon your time frame to start PCT is different than standard. The half life of those esters is very long (read up on half life and steroid esters, esters are the enanthate, cypionate, undeconate, propionate, ect). You need to wait a at LEAST a full two weeks from your last shot of either EQ or sustanon to start PCT. So if you pin today the 16th you could start PCT on the 1st. Adjust the dates for when you last pin. Really with your esters if I pinned today the 16th I would start PCT on the 4th but that’s me.
Your aromasin dosage is high. Really you probably didn’t even need it and it probably worked against you in regards to gains. We need some estrogen to gain muscle and I bet you had very little with your dose. Stop taking it you shouldn’t need it even if you stretch your cycle another couple of weeks.
The whole concept of starting at a low dose to see how you react is good in theory however you need enough of a dose to get over the “anabolic threshold.” Basically if you don’t take enough then even though you are taking more than natural production you don’t really get results like you are on a cycle. You still get results but not steroid cycle results. If you wanted to do your next cycle at just 250mgs of test per week that is ok and you will gain something it is just a matter of how much. 250mgs should be the lowest dose per week. Again I think you should shoot for between 400 and 500 per week. Remember UGL steroids are usually under dosed so even though going by the label you think you are at 500 really you might only be just under 400.
PCT timing all depends on what esters are attached to your steroids. Read up. Long esters like enanthate or cypionate you wait two weeks after your last injection. With LONGER esters like the ones in sustanon or the ones attached to EQ or DECA you should wait about 18-20 days. With short esters like propionate you can start PCT a couple of days after your last injection. Timing all depends on which esters.
FYI sustanon looks great on paper because it has short and long esters in it. You end up paying more for it but really it doesn’t kick in any quicker than just good old testosterone enanthate or testosterone cypionate. So next time just save the 5$ or $10 and get a bottle of enanthate or cypionate. Seriously anyone who reads this and has taken a cycle of sustanon and another separate cycle of just enanthate or cypionate, did you get better results with either one? I bet you it will be a toss up, no clear winner on the sustanon vs enanthate or cypionate end results comparison. So why pay more to get the same results? Sustanon is really best for testosterone replacement therapy but since it is around and UGLs can charge more for it then it is popular.
