[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Interesting… normal prices for the orals. [/quote]
I guess he makes his money on the test. I hope that he doesn’t boost the price of the orals when he hears I am getting my test elsewhere. He was very generous when he felt I was going to buy the test from him. He offered me a training program and dieting advice to maximise gains from the cycle.
That may all change. Hope not…
Went to see my local supplier today and advised that I want the 100 x 10mg Dbol & 100 x 25mg Proviron only. He said “Proviron is difficult to get” after telling me he had it last time we met. He said he would call me when he receives it.
Proviron is not the easier thing to come by. Compared to dbol which literally grows on trees at least.
Yeah I hear you Saps. The Proviron is key for me as my elevated SHBG level undermines my usable test. If I want to maximise results, I definitely need something to keep the SHBG in check. To date estrogen has not been a problem for me, but I have been cursed by SHBG.
Proviron being so rare must dictate that it commands a higher price when the real deal is available? It seems the law of supply and demand would prevail. Actually, from all the experiences I’ve been reading, it is a constant battle to get solid gear. It is discouraging when I see even vets like you (not you in particular) getting bunk gear.
What a waste of time, money, training energy, nutritional efforts, etc. Funny thing is everyone puts so much empasis on getting a “reasonable” price. What is the opportunity cost of getting a good price but sacrificing potency and quality. That said, I guess the worst combination is expensive bunk gear.
This undertaking is certainly fraught with pitfalls. I guess that’s the challenge.
Dynamo, if you can’t get Proviron, look into winstrol. It has similar SHBG qualities and mey help. Of proviron would be preferred for your situation.
When do you plan on starting this cycle? I have a friend who is planning the exact same cycle right now. He is gonna start in a couple of weeks.
[quote]xXDevilDogXx wrote:
Dynamo, if you can’t get Proviron, look into winstrol. It has similar SHBG qualities and mey help. Of proviron would be preferred for your situation.
When do you plan on starting this cycle? I have a friend who is planning the exact same cycle right now. He is gonna start in a couple of weeks.[/quote]
Hey DevilDog,
Compliments on your ever-changing avatars. We must have similiar taste in the fairer sex. Thay always drive me to distraction. This one in particular takes high honors.
Thanks for the heads up on winstrol’s positive affect on minimizing the binding of test to SHBG, much like proviron. I had read about that and will no doubt go for it in the absence of proviron. Can I make a straight substitution of the two in my planned cycle weekwise? How about mg wise. I know it is a lot easier to obtain.
I am planning to start the cycle as soon as I can get the gear lined up. I still have to get the script from my doctor for the test enanthate. I did a complete blood panel last Friday and am waiting until next week to get a copy of the results and broach the subject with my doc. He will no doubt want to see low PSA numbers and confirm that my free test is still low and SHBG still high. Is there a proviron equivalent prescription med that I could ask him about at the same time?
Is your friend going to use proviron or winstrol? Keep me posted on his progress or let me know if he posts a log. It would be great to brainstorm with someone using the same cycle at the same time.
Another question comes to mind. Since the proviron (or winstrol) only comes into play in weeks 6-12, will my elevated SHBG undermine the earlier weeks of the cycle? If yes, what can I do to avoid that? I plan to run the adex as prescribed.
[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
Hey DevilDog,
Compliments on your ever-changing avatars. We must have similiar taste in the fairer sex. Thay always drive me to distraction. This one in particular takes high honors.[/quote]
Thanks, I try to keep it interesting.
[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
Thanks for the heads up on winstrol’s positive affect on minimizing the binding of test to SHBG, much like proviron. I had read about that and will no doubt go for it in the absence of proviron. Can I make a straight substitution of the two in my planned cycle weekwise? How about mg wise. I know it is a lot easier to obtain.[/quote]
I would use it around 50-100 mg per day. I would choose the lower dose if taking orals, higher if injecting. But thats just personal preferrence based on the fact that the liver will be slightly stressed from the first 4 weeks of DBol and then you’d be adding in a different 17aa. The provron isn’t 17aa so it isn’t as much of a concern.
[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
I am planning to start the cycle as soon as I can get the gear lined up. I still have to get the script from my doctor for the test enanthate. I did a complete blood panel last Friday and am waiting until next week to get a copy of the results and broach the subject with my doc. He will no doubt want to see low PSA numbers and confirm that my free test is still low and SHBG still high. Is there a proviron equivalent prescription med that I could ask him about at the same time?[/quote]
I’m not sure on this, I’d have to do some research.
[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
Is your friend going to use proviron or winstrol? Keep me posted on his progress or let me know if he posts a log. It would be great to brainstorm with someone using the same cycle at the same time.[/quote]
He already has secured his proviron, so he’ll be using that.
[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
Another question comes to mind. Since the proviron (or winstrol) only comes into play in weeks 6-12, will my elevated SHBG undermine the earlier weeks of the cycle? If yes, what can I do to avoid that? I plan to run the adex as prescribed.[/quote]
I don’t think it will be a problem because it will be early on in the cycle.
Most use the oral form as far as I can see. I guess the injectable is the wiser choice liver-wise. That is a another definite advantage of Proviron - not being a 17aa.
Yeah. Me too.
Hopefully I’ll have mine soon too.
[quote]
Dynamo Hum wrote:
Another question comes to mind. Since the proviron (or winstrol) only comes into play in weeks 6-12, will my elevated SHBG undermine the earlier weeks of the cycle? If yes, what can I do to avoid that? I plan to run the adex as prescribed.
xXDevilDogXx wrote: I don’t think it will be a problem because it will be early on in the cycle.[/quote]
Hopefully that will be the case.
Just let me know if you are able to get the proviron. I’ll tell my friend and maybe you guys can compare notes.
[quote]xXDevilDogXx wrote:
Just let me know if you are able to get the proviron. I’ll tell my friend and maybe you guys can compare notes.[/quote]
Will do…
I picked up my Adex today. Step 1 in building the cycle. 1 down and test enth, Dbol, & Proviron to go…
Smart man, getting the ancillaries first!
[quote]xXDevilDogXx wrote:
Smart man, getting the ancillaries first![/quote]
DD,
Are you between avatars?? 
** Edit ** Scratch that. Your new one is a beaut!!
Where to begin? Well I completed step 2 today. I picked up Dbol 100 x 10mg from my local source. He says he’ll have the Proviron on Monday. He gave me 6 x 25mg Proviron to get started as a freebie. He charged me $115 for the Dbol. So with luck I’ll have my AI (Adex already in hand) and orals wrapped up by Monday.
Maybe someone is familiar with the orals I picked up today. Here’s the description:
sealed silver sachet which once opened has zip lock to reseal. White label with orange edge (orange edge reads Inn Vagen with the graphic of a planet with a small moon orbiting it) reads:
NABOLIN
Methandrostenolone
10mg
100 Tablets
Exp Date Jun 2011
Lot # NB021
I didn’t open pouch yet so I can’t say what tabs look like.
sealed silver sachet which once opened has zip lock to reseal. White label with firey graphic reads:
ANDROVIRON
Inn Vagen
Mesterolone 25mg
100 Tablets
Exp Date May 2009
Lot # AV002
tabs are medium blue with something like a wolf’s head stamped on one side and a splitting line on the back.
Does this sound like the real deal and any input on quality?
I was a busy boy today. I went to pick up my blood lab results and I talked to my doc about prescribing Testosterone as well as other matters. Will add details in a minute.
Firstly, blood lab colected on 8/8/8 @ 8:26 am:
Glucose (fasting) 4.9 nmol/L (3.9-5.5)
Albumin 45 g/L (35-51)
Triglycerides 0.35 mmol/L (0.5-2.6)
Total Cholesterol 5.77 mmol/L
LDL 2.72 mmol/L
HDL 2.89 mmol/L
Total Cholesterol/HDL 2.0 mmol/L
C-Reactive Protein 2.2 mg/L (0-10)
TSH 1.74 mU/L (0.4-4.5)
Free T3 4.3 pmol/L (2.8-7.1)
Prolactin 4.6 ug/L (2.7-16.9)
Estradiol 59 pmol/L (Adult male 55-165)
Progesterone 9.0 nmol/L (0.1-5.3)
A.M. Cortisol 679 nmol/L (138-690)
Testosterone Total 11.2 nmol/L (7.37-23.08)
Testosterone Free 115 pmol/L (163-508)
Testosterone Bioavailable 2.91 nmol/L (3.94-12.31)
SHBG 79.7 nmol/L (10.5-50.4)
Insulin (fasting) 68.6 pmol/L (40-100)
PSA 0.2 ug/L (0-4)
Dhea-sulfate (not ready yet)
IGF 1 (not ready yet)
Needless to say my testosterone numbers are in the toilet and my SHBG is elevated as usual. Progesterone was a surprise as I don’t often test it.
I talked to my Doc about the results and he said that the elevated progesterone is actually good. He said it protects against estrogen and is a precursor to cortisone.
He said that my somewhat elevated cortisol level was a good sign too since I was a little stressed out fasting and waiting quite a while for my blood to be drawn after commuting for an hour or so on public transit. He said this shows my adrenals are working well. Cortisol is also supposed to be higher in the morning than in the evening.
I broached the topic of him prescribing testosterone and he suggested I try - GET THIS - PROVIRON. He said he couldn’t prescribe it for me because it is not available in Canada, but he said I should get it at the gym and it is perfectly safe and extremely effective at combatting high SHBG at 25-75 mg/day.
Needless to say I was somewhat shocked. He said that after 3 months if I am not satisfied with that treatment, we could look at testosterone. He believes in HRT, not bodybuilding levels. Plus he said that the proviron does not interfere with LH and FSH nor aromatize so it is a perfect solution for me.
He said that I should check ALT and AST liver enzyme levels every once in a while during ingestion of Proviron but didn’t expect any issues at 25-75 mg per day.
My doc specializes in hormones. He regularly attends conferences where he brainstorms with the likes of Eugene Shippen (author - The Testosterone Syndrome) and Thierry Hurtoghe (Author - The Hormone Solution).
So now if I want to do this cycle before starting on continual HRT, I will need to find another source for the test enth.
Comments??
Oh yeah. Get this. Doc says he and his gang of cutting edge endocrinologists now prefer subcutaneous injections of testosterone. I asked even in oil base?
His reply was yes that this facilitates injections and the effect is equal to intramuscular injections.
I asked why bodybuilders still inject intramuscular and he said because they don’t know yet. Any opinions??
It’s been quiet on this forum…
I remembered another thing doc said about elevated progesterone. He said it is protective against enlarged prostate and prostate cancer.
Took 2 Proviron @ 25mg each before and after training today. I really don’t feel that it alone will give me enough boost. I think it will take some bonified test. Then the addition of Dbol or Proviron will enhance the effect.
I am curious. Why is Proviron not used from the start of this cycle (see 1st page for cycle layout)? Is it the concern of two orals being hard on the liver even though proviron is not 17aa? It seems that Proviron could provide benefits right from the start??
I took another 25 mg of Proviron this am and am planning to take one more later in the day for 50 mg total like yesterday. I am just experimenting to see if I can feel the reduction in SHBG and resulting increase of free Test from my own natural production which has been impeded by my elevated SHBG level.
I am still looking for test enth to complete my cycle shopping list. Well of course I still have to get needles too.
I am thinking instead of doing a taper for PCT, that I will go directly into HRT at week 11 at 100mg/w test enth and 0.25 mg EOD Adex. I may throw 25-50 mg/d Proviron in the HRT mix to spice things up a little while keeping SHBG in check.
I am hearing that 0.5 mg Adex EOD is preferrable for during the 10 week cycle seeing that the math sums up to 583mg test enth/week combined with Dbol 10mg 3x/d for weeks 1-4. The 0.25mg Adex EOD recommended in FG’s sticky might not cut it?
Of course, Ithere will be HPTA shutdown and resulting testicle shrinkage and infertility if I don’t address it with hCG. I haven’t decided whether to start the hCG after the cycle when starting HRT or during the 10 week cycle. I am thinking 250iu EOD. Any thoughts?