T Nation

Test E + Tren A


Would a cycle of test e at 400 mgs/week and 50 mg/ed of tren be too strong for a first cycle? Would the possible sides be too much for a first time user?


many don't believe in Tren for a first cycle but I did use it in my first cycle.

I think it comes down to how much knowledge you have as tren can be a bit tricky. I would definitely advise against Tren E for a first cycle and instead go with acetate which should be injected ED...then you might as well go with propionate for test since your doing ED injects anyways lol.

Many feel test E at 500mg/wk for 12 weeks to be a good suitable first timer that will give many great results.

What is your age/states if you dont mind?


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How would you inject the slin pins?
SubQ or IM?

Is there a limit to how much volume to use if its subq?


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BBB if you don't mind what size slin pins do you use for IM oil based injections?

I have some 1/2in 29g pins but I think if I tried injecting something like Test E with them that it might take half the day to get it in lol jk.

I've been thinking about doing this as I really, really like using fast acting esters and drugs and since I'd be shooting ED it'd be nice to start using bis, tris, calves, chest, etc...and I figure small amounts with slin pins would be better off instead of trying to pin 1ml into my bicep or something with a regular sized barrel lol.

thanks dood



I just started pinning my taper dose of prop with a 29g 1/2" 0.5ml slin pin. I was surprised how easy it is. I went IM in the quad. Drawing puts a lot of bubbles in the oil, but they go to the top when you point the syringe upwards.

Then once excess oil is squeezed back into vial it is good to go.

My prop is a little thinner than the test e I was using on cycle so that could make the process a little more difficult. Should be doable though. Drawing is the hard part. Pinning is a breeze.


I think the 29g pins will create more pressure. If the oil goes through 25g I would think it would go through a 29. Drawing sounds like a more difficult task. I assume that's why backfilling has been suggested. That, and to keep the needle as sharp as possible.


Everybody beat me to everything here, so I'll just back up what has been said:

Yes, drawing is the worst part. Pins could be backfilled, but I, personally, tend to make a big mess doing it. If you're just filling .3 - .4 ml a day, as is being discussed, it's really not that big a deal to draw straight from the vial, just takes patience.

Pinning is an absolute breeze. Quad works perfectly fine. Other small muscle groups such as biceps or triceps could also be used. Obviously all this takes for granted you aren't a fatty.

All that said, I see no reason to use tren in a first cycle when wonderful gains can be achieved from test with a few weeks of dbol.


How is backfilling actually done? Do you take an insulin syringe draw the right amount then take a different insulin syringe, take the plunger out and squirt the stuff in, then replace the plunger?

OP sorry for the hijack


I'm probably the worst guy to answer this, as I've never really been successful with it, but I think it goes like this: Take a larger syringe and bigger gauge needle and draw up the amount you need.

Then, yes, take, for example, an insulin syringe, pull out the plunger (obviously set it down someplace sterile, I use an alcohol prep pad), and shoot in your desired amount. Now comes the tricky part that I always screw up.

You put the plunger back in, but only slightly, so that you don't push out all of the oil you just put in, then you turn your syringe upward so that the oil runs down. If you've done it right, none of the oil should leak out from the barrel where the plunger is, and you can now safely push the plunger all the way in.

On a tangential note, and since we're hijacking, did you know that you can hold an amp upside down and no oil will leak out? This is useful if, when using amps, you want to save a needle and not dull the blade by pressing it against the glass. You can just pull everything out of the top of the amp :slightly_smiling:



Thanks for the explanation. If I ever do it I'll practice with some olive oil or whatever.

I've heard of that but never thought about it much. What's the reason? Air pressure? Viscosity? Surface tension? Not knowing how it happens, I've always figured that once the needle is pushed through the oil breaking the surface tension that all of the oil would come out. Or do you put the needle in first then flip it upside down?

I plan to never have to use amps. They seem like a hassel, to use and store.


I've only used a few amps, but the process works wonderfully. Flip the amp upside down, push the needle into the little dip of oil and suck it all out, tilting just slightly at the finish. I guess the oil doesn't come out because no air can get in to displace it.

I think it was chillain that first brought this up, but I apologize if I am mistaken.





that would have been real handy a few months ago :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

learn somethin new everyday lol


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