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Test E/Primo/TBol/Mast Cycle (Log...of sorts)

Hello all.

Quick background, early 40’s, been lifting serious for 20+ years. Have run a few cycles in the past 5-6 years. On TRT 5 years now, so PCT is not an issue.

So. I am currently out of the US, in a country where gear is…perhaps legal, perhaps just overlooked. Honestly not sure, but I digress. I purchased several items for a cycle I had planned, and am getting ready to start in about a week or so. The list:

primo - high dose, staple of most of my cycles
test - obviously
turinabol - fave oral, recently tried dbol for the first time in years and didn’t like the BP changes (never tested it, but could feel it in my face)
tren ace - was planning on running a short blast of tren at the beginning of the cycle, following with tbol
cardarine - to counteract the cardio issues associated with tren

Brought a LabMax kit with me, and it turns out the tren isn’t tren - apparently it is masteron. A little disappointed, but whatevs. Also, labmax’d the primo. It’s legit.

Also, for various reasons I won’t get into, I am planning for two different eventualities, meaning either an 8 week cycle or a 10 week cycle. Unfortunately won’t know which until after I have started.

So, my current plan is thus:
Test E - 250mg/week throughout
Primo - 700 or 800mg/week throughout(haven’t decided which yet) - injections 200-230mg EOD (depending on which dosage I choose - leaning on 800)
TBol - 50mg/day weeks 1-4 or 5
Mast - 76 or 100mg EOD either weeks 2-8 or weeks 4 - 10 (obviously depends on schedule)
cardarine - 20mg/day throughout

Reason for two different possible doses on the mast: the packaging for the ‘tren ace’ has it dosed at 76mg/ml. This had me worried it was a parabolan knockoff rather than ace, since that is the only tren product I have seen dosed at 76mg (which is why I brought the labmax kit to confirm). So, knowing now that it is mast, I’m figuring the packaging was completely wrong including concentration, meaning it is actually 100mg/ml (I’m hoping). It may turn out it is dosed lower, but I don’t think I’ll know for sure. From what I understand, mast is one of those you don’t see a huge difference from unless you are super low BF. I’m guessing I’m around 15%, but not sure. I am losing bodyfat right now, since I have been almost completely carnivore for the last week - aside from some OJ with breakfast and an apple and banana a couple days ago. Anyways, I’m rambling again.

Goal for this is to gain back strength and muscle I lost during this corona lockdown bullshit, and hopefully continue to drop some BF. So basically a recomp with some weight gain - I was 225 before all this, don’t know where I am now but I’m guessing I’ve dropped some weight. I would like to get back to that. I don’t have access to a scale for another week, but that will allow me to assess my starting point. Also work on conditioning, it’s been lacking a little recently. Was making some progress since I couldn’t do much other than run during this hysteria, but then was super busy the last couple weeks prior to leaving so I was unable to even run.

Anyways. Any suggestions? I’m running what I have, so don’t bother telling me to run something not on the list. Basically looking for any issues people see. Also, if you have experience with mast, I’d love to hear some ideas as to what to expect.

So, no comments so I’m assuming no one saw issues with this setup. Cool.

I’m going to make this a periodic log of my progress - most likely won’t do daily updates, but I’ll try and remember to check in every so often with updates.

So, basic outline-
Test E - 250mg/week throughout (125 2x/week)
Primo - 700mg/week throughout (200mg EOD)
Tbol - 50mg/day Weeks 1-4, and 8-11
Mast - approx. 350mg/week Weeks 4-8 (100mg EOD)

Started primo injections yesterday and bumped my TRT dose up to 250 this week, as a sort of front load. Plan to start tbol on Sunday.

43yo, lifting for 25+ years. Had no gym for most of lockdown, so got a little out of shape - ran and did some kettlebell stuff and pullups to stave off most of the damage, but still got to a point where my abs were not visible for the first time in over 10 years (maybe longer). The last two weeks I had access to some minimal gym equipment through work, and followed a loose carnivore diet during that time - ate just meat and eggs, but drank OJ with breakfast so not completely zero-carb/carnivore. Shed some bf (and water I am sure), and lost a little weight. Will most likely go back to a more ‘normal’ eating plan, as I doubt I will be able to put on much weight on strictly carnivore. I weighted 219 clothed this morning in the gym (before some easy cardio), goal is to get back up around 225 and stay lean.

The next couple days will be establishing maxes in front squat, overhead press, bench, and either some form of back squat or deadlift (haven’t back squatted in a few years, kind of leaning toward either hi bar or low bar for a while). Training program will be a modified version of 531 Spinal Tap with cluster sets at the top, direct arm training, and a decent amount of cardio (have to maintain/improve that for work so…).

I’m interested in your results here. This sounds like It could be good. I’ve used masteron a few times and primo once before. I also enjoy Tbol. Never used together though. You’re obviously looking to add lean mass, so, in my opinion, you should try run carbs at around 100g/day and mainly around training. The balance of carbs should be in the form of veg. That works well for me at least.
Not sure what type of work you do, but on cycle I use metcons for conditioning and grappling/bag work for cardio. That also helps maintain lean muscle mass. Keep updating on here, good luck.

Im interested in this too. I see no problems with the setup but in your case with a ton of experience I’d keep my mouth shut anyways.
I’d do a low bar back squat since that’s easier on the lower back in my opinion and it will build your trunk faster as well as strength. I don’t think it’s the best bodybuilding exercise though.
5/3/1 would not be my program of choice on cycle since it gets really heavy but I think you know what you’re doing and trying to accomplish. Good luck brother!

TBH I don’t understand the set up. I understand the test dose and primo dose. Not sure I understand the logic of the split tbol and middle mast. I would likely run those a little differently but I think its splitting hairs. How about some before and after photos?

This will be the first time I’ve used 531 in any form on cycle. If you’re familiar with Spinal Tap, you do a 3 week block’s worth of lifting in one session, so heavy yes, but also volume. My modification is after doing 5’s and 3’s, rather than drop back down and do the full 531, I will go up to 95% (the 1 of 531) and do clusters at that weight. Since I have lost some strength due to the BS COVID layoff, I am expecting to gain that back fairly quickly, so if the clusters on a given training day feel a little too ‘easy’, then I’ll add 5-10 pounds and see how it goes.

-experience - I’ve been lifting a long time, but have only really been cycling the last 6-7 years. And those have not had a lot of variation.

-low bar squat - I’d like to use that, but I haven’t low bar squatted in a few years and my shoulder mobility has degraded. I can get into a high bar position, but I can’t get the bar down low where I used to. Still working on this. When I used to low bar, my adductors were yuge, along with my ass to an extent (the wife liked that part).

Tbol is my favorite oral, I use it fairly often. And every time, when I get around the 4-5 week mark I start getting the pumps pretty solid so that is where I typically cut it out. That is why I am running the tbol that way - 4 weeks and stop before the pumps kick in (hopefully), run mast down the middle, and then tbol again at the end. My previous primo cycles seem to stall toward the end, so I’m thinking a tbol kicker at the end might change that a little bit.

I wouldn’t mind doing before and afters, but I need to figure out a way to modify photos. I have some rather distinguishable tattoos, so for obvious reasons I try and avoid putting identifying stuff with discussions of this kind. I might do them for my own record anyway, and I can try and figure out how to smudge out the parts that need it.

Cool man. Well it sounds like you’ve got it figured out. FWIW Tbol is one of my favs too. Nice lean growth. It did mess up my ALT/AST though. Haven’t checked in awhile to see if I recovered as that was 3-4 months ago.

Does the gym you are going back to have any specialty bars? I would not use a barbell for any squatting if I did not powerlift. I really like using the giant camber bar, the duffalo/buffalo, and the SSB bar in that order. All are easier on the shoulders.

Last meet prep, I squatted with the giant camber bar until about 4-6 weeks out. Still hit a PR on squat at the meet after being terribly sick the week before the meet.

Haven’t seen any, just straight bars. I’ll look a little more in depth when I get a chance. I used the SSB last fall when I was having a right arm weakness issue (turned out to be a nerve impingement in my neck) and couldn’t front squat because part of the nerve issue was not being able to fully contract my right delt. I could move my arm with no problem - weakness when moving weight but no actual movement issues. But I couldn’t flex the right delt, so it just sat there like mush when I tried racking the bar and allowed the bar to keep rolling forward off my shoulder.

SSB took a little getting used to - I watched a Brian Alsruhe video to make sure I was doing it right. Wasn’t bad though, once I got the groove. I’ve never had a camber bar to try though.

I can relate. My ass grew out all my jeans and the upper part of my legs got damn wide. My girl likes that as well haha

This seems very heavy. I like this plan and I’d run it myself but on cycle I would stay away from going that heavy except for if you are just gaining back strength. As soon as you go beyond that, I’d be careful because of ligaments and other tissues. Keep your technique on point and I like your plan

I’ve definitely got some strength to gain back so I’m not too concerned, but I get what you are saying. Once I get to pre-lockdown levels, I’ll slow my rate of weight progression (assuming it hasn’t already at that point).

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I established maxes on front squat and overhead press yesterday, and then did squat today. I was able to force myself into a low bar position, pushing through the tightness in my shoulders and elbows - even felt a little bit of a cramp in my left hand in the meat below the thumb on some of the early sets. Tomorrow will be bench, and then Monday will be my first lifting day leading off with front squat. Interestingly, I haven’t back squatted in about 5 years. At the time, my 1RM was 505 - my training max was high 400s IIRC. Today, I maxed at 335 and stopped there not because the weight was getting too much - in fact, it was still going up at a decent pace - but because my shoulders (and elbows to some extent) were getting cranky. I’ll try this for a few weeks and see if that improves; if not, then I’ll switch to deadlift - either straight bar or trap bar.

Training week will look like this: most days (if not all) will start off with easy cardio on the elliptical first thing before breakfast (10g BCAA, plus 5g leucine). Lifting sessions will be either later in the morning or afternoon, depending on my work schedule that specific day (changes around a bit).
Monday - front squat, posterior chain variation BBB style, accessory movements (including calves)
Tuesday - weighted pullups and overhead press (supersetted), BBB bench variant, lat and delt accessory moves
Wednesday - conditioning in one session, bis/tris in another (these will get condensed into one session some times)
Thursday - squat (this may get swapped for deadlifts), BBB front squat, posterior accessories, calves
Friday - rows and bench supersetted, BBB delt move (usually behind the neck press if mobility allows), lat and chest accessories
Saturday - conditioning and arms
Sunday - conditioning

Wednesday and Saturday will most likely be running, varying between 2-3 miles, shorter sprints, and some form of running development workout (a la military athlete). Sunday, I haven’t decided yet, either slower running pace or some other form of GP conditioning, lower intensity than the runs (work capacity/recovery). As I progress, some morning elliptical sessions will be replaced by slower pace runs (around 10:00 pace is what I used in the past).

Took some before pics, but having trouble uploading them. But I have them, at least for my own use if nothing else.

I will say this, I am constantly amazed at how much fat I carry on my lower back From what I remember, that area always looks kind of dumpy on me. But the once or twice I’ve been well below 10% I didn’t think to take all around shots.

Not sure what’s going on here, but having some issues. Typed a fairly long update and posted it, but it appeared to double post (both posts were full view, not that blurry preview thing) so I deleted one. One post showed as deleted, the other was still there. Then I refreshed the thread, and both are gone. sigh

So. Established maxes in front squat and overhead press yesterday, then squat today. Managed to force myself into a low bar position, though my shoulders and elbows weren’t too happy with it. Even got a weird cramp in the meat under my left thumb, oddly enough. Weight moved pretty well, even on the weight I stopped at. I stopped at 335 not because it was getting too heavy, but because my shoulders were getting cranky. I’m going to try this out for a few weeks, working on mobility along with it. If it doesn’t get any better, then I’ll most likely switch to some form of deadlift - intention here is obviously to get some posterior chain work, otherwise I would switch to high bar (and I typically feel that more in the quads). Tomorrow I will bench, then Monday will start my lifting week.

Training week will look like so: most mornings (if not all) will start off with easy cardio on the elliptical first thing before breakfast (10g BCAA, plus 5g leucine). Lifting will be done either later in the morning or afternoon, depending on my work schedule (which changes periodically). As I progress, some of these morning elliptical sessions will be replaced by easy pace runs (about a 10:00 pace is what I have used in the past).

Monday - front squat, BBB posterior chain variant, quad accessories and calves
Tuesday - weighted pullup and overhead press (supersetted), BBB incline chest variant, lat and delt accessories
Wednesday - conditioning in one session, arms in another (these will get condensed into one session sometimes due to work)
Thursday - squat (possibly deadlift), BBB front squat, posterior accessories and calves
Friday - rows and bench supersetted, BBB press (usually behind the neck as allowed by shoulder mobility), chest and lat/upper back accessory
Saturday - conditioning and arms (same as Wed)
Sunday - some other form of medium cardio/work capacity

Wed and Sat will be primarily run days, switching between 2-3 miles, shorter sprints, and running development workouts (a la military athlete).

Like I said, I most likely won’t do daily updates but I will post some of my workouts.

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And the original post popped back up - or maybe one of the mods fixed it. If that’s the case, then thank you for your assistance kind person.

So, maxes.

Front squat - 1RM was 345, using 95% as a training max instead of 90% (more on that in a bit) gives me - 330

Overhead press - 1RM = 155. Using training max of 145 (approx. 94%)

Low bar squat - 1RM = 335. I mentioned shoulder issues previously, due to those I am switching to trap bar deadlift and using my squat 1RM as a training max.

Bench - 1RM = 275. Using 270 as a training max.

Explanation - Like most of us, I have been locked out of my local gym since March 20th. When I regained use of a gym (although limited severely on equipment for reasons), I was able to do basic movements for about two weeks so each workout I basically worked up to a 1RM for that day. And each time I did that, that 1RM was a little higher so I am expecting my strength to come back pretty rapidly once I start back into my normal workouts. Thus, I am placing my training maxes closer to the 1RM I established over the last few days, due to this trend.

As to the switch from low bar squat to trap bar deadlift - I had been wanting to move away from straight bar deadlift since I couldn’t decide (back when I was lifting regular before all this BS) if my form was breaking down or not. As I’ve mentioned a few times, I haven’t back squatted in about 5 years so I wanted to bring that back in. Alas, my shoulders are not cooperating. I mentioned having to force the position when I squatted yesterday. Today while benching, I could feel a slight impingement at the bottom of ROM (right about when the bar touched my sternum) in the back of my left shoulder. Rather than force the issue and make it worse, I will choose the better part of valor and do something else. If it hurts don’t do it, right? I still intend on doing mobility work and using behind the neck presses for my BBB work on bench days - assuming I can do that pain free. BTN press is a great mass builder, if you have the ROM for it. I’ve used it pretty consistently over the last few years, so I shouldn’t have much trouble getting back into it.

And yes, I have said a couple times I don’t intend on daily updates but here I am. Daily. I’m pretty bored at work right now (pretty quiet), and this gives me one more thing to do with my time.

I would definitely dose the Primo as high as possible so 800mg in your case, I saw good gains at that dose and not much below that. Other than that im excited to see your results.

Be careful with your joints going back into heavy AAS-assisted lifting because your muscles will strengthen quick but you’ll be injury prone.

SB

I started injecting primo middle of last week, sort of a front load, currently dosed at 700mg/week. I’ve done that dose in each of my previous primo cycles, so I think maybe I should bump it to 800. Couldn’t hurt, right?

Only issue will be during the mast weeks - I only have 3ml syringes, and dosing 800mg/week will be 230mg EOD, or 2.3ml. I was going to simply add the 100mg per injection of mast to the same syringe as the primo, but that won’t work. Guess that means a second injection. Unfortunately I am a little short on needles and not sure if I can get any more during this cycle.

I have a ton of insulin syringes, anybody know if mast will go through a 30ga?

A 3 ml syringe holds more than 3 ml. They actually hold between 3.3 and 3.5 ml depending on manufacture.

Use a ruler to see what distance corresponds to .3 ml, then pull back that distance past the 3ml mark to get that extra ml in. I would do this over two shots, but they are going to be some pretty big shots.

I’ve done 3ml in glutes, but no more than 1ml anywhere else. I’ve heard of guys doing up to 5ml in glutes, IIRC. And 2-3 in delts and quads, but I’m not sure I want to go that big in those spots.