23 yrs 5'11".5" 205 lbs 11% bf previous cycle of test p 130 mg EOD
posted a couple wks ago about upcoming fall cycle. originally planned an 8 wk (FL) of test e with a 4 wk dbol kickstart. for various reasons ive decided to revamp my cycle to the following:
wk 1-12: test e 600 mg/wk (pin mon/thurs) wk 1-10: deca 300 mg/wk (pin mon/thurs) wk 1-5: dbol 30 mg ED wk 1-5: adex .5 mg ED (high dose to account for dbol usage) wk 6-12: adex .25 mg ED (taper down or run low dose thru pct??) wk 1- 13: caber .25 mg 2x/wk before bed wk 4-14: HCG 150 iu EOD wk 15: nolva 40 mg ED wk 16: nolva 40 mg ED wk 17: nolva 30 mg ED wk 18: nolva 20 mg ED wk 19: nolva 20 mg ED
QUESTIONS: - confused about when to stop the caber? stop at wk 12 (last wk of injects) or run it thru the 2 wks after test shots prior to pct? also, do i taper off it? - do i need to increase my HCG dosage and am i correct in running hcg for 2 wks after last test shot? also, do i need to taper this down? - also, whats the consensus on running low dose adex thru pct? Brook, im interested in getting your opinion on this. i know KSman and dynamo advocate for this, but the opinion is mixed.
Good cycle. I would front load the test and deca and run 10 and 8 weeks respectively. Your call on that however.
1) Adex doses are good. Adjust if low or high estrogen synptoms present. Taper Adex from 0.25/d to 0.14mg EOD in week 13 and maintain that dose throughout PCT and for a while after if desired.
2) Stop HCG at the same time as Test e. I would run (and am running) 250iu EOD. I would start in week 2 and run to end of test e.
3) For Nolva PCT, I think the third week at 30mg/d is overkill. Two weeks at 40mg/d is adequate and two additional at 20mg/d should be sufficient. See how you feel at start of W19 and if libido is back and you are felling good, there is no need for an additional week of 20 mg.
4) Nothing is written in stone and small changes will not make an enormous difference. See what works for you.
I didnt start the caber until week 5 or 6 (not by choice). Prolactin did not build up and become an issue until at least week 3, started becoming bothersome by the end of week 4. 1mg/wk split dose worked very well for me. My tablets were extremely small so I couldn't take any less than .5mg at a time with accuracy. I ran the caber into week 13 of my cycle. I really couldn't think of a way to figure out if prolactin was still problem other than just stopping the caber and checking the results. Tapering the dose may not be a bad idea if you can.
dynamo - ill run the adex thru pct. ill also take out the week of nolva 30 mg/day and just do the standard 40/40/20/20. wasnt sure if the 30 mg was necessary or not given the suppression of deca. question though - since i will have elevated androgen levels for a week or two post injections, why is it recomended to stop hcg with the injects? wouldnt you want to run the hcg while androgens are still high and my balls havent fully recovered during that 2 wk period before pct?
bonez - thanks for the caber advice. as of right now im not sure whether ill be using tabs or liquid. is the major difference just ease of dosing or are tabs better in some way?
I would personally use the Cabergoline (Tabs only, NEVER liquid) until the end of PCT. Just to make sure - but this is as i know how i react to Deca induced prolactin rises, and you may honestly never have an issue (some seem to be unaffected by the amount of prolactin - and i wasn't the first few times i used Deca).
The HCG is fine at the doise you are planning.
You will not need to run Adex through a Nolvadex PCT. If you run it throughout the 2 weeks upto the PCT, you will ensure that your Estrogen levels continue to be controlled as the aromatisable hormone (T'rone) levels drop.. meaning when you come off the Adex, there is little test to turn to Estrogen.
The PCT may be warranted at 5+ weeks TBH. It is a long cycle and potentially more suppressive than a Test only 12 weeker - unless the caber is enough to prevent the suppression from the prolactin; Increase the Caber to 1mg a week.. not 0.5mg (0.5mg 2x/wk). Run 40mg of tamoxifen for 2 weeks, then run 20mg for as many weeks as you feel necessary till you feel good enough to recover. 4-5 should be enough with the HCG and Caber in your tent pissing out..
It's not that great of a drug to put yourself through the potential dismay of high prolactin.
Nevermind the fact that caber isn't cheap. The only reason I'd ever use deca again is because I have some extra caber laying around. Very nice drug for physique enhancement but not worth using if you are affected by prolactin.
I was planning on using Deca for my next cycle due to the joint health that it is said to promote. I'm still recovering from shoulder impingement and while I'm actively following the rehab exercises and stretching for it, Deca looked like a viable option. I will have to shop around for some pills then, never heard the liquid stuff was junk before (not saying your wrong, just that I missed that).
brook - thanks for clarifying a few things. namely, upping the caber dose. i would also appreciate your insight on these things:
at your recomendation im going to run caber all the way thru (19 wks). since i will be on it for this long, do you recommend tapering down or do i stop cold turkey?
ive seen elsewhere that you recommend a starting dose of deca between 3-400 mg/wk. obviously i would be on the low end of this starting dose. do you think my gains would be increased enough to warrant a jump from 300 mg to 400 mg/wk?? if so, would i need to up the test, hcg, and caber accordingly?
thanks again for the help from you guys. much apprec and informative.
I didn't realise it was 19 weeks! Shit, that is a long cycle... i will get back to that.
I would stick at 300mg of Nandrolone. It is a fine dose, and IME 400mg gives little extra muscle over 300mg.
I personally would use adex at 0.75mg weeks 1-5 and 0.5mg the rest.. 0.25mg is not enough for myself.. so you know.
Your cycle is very long.. and only 6-8 or so of those weeks will give results. You may want to look into frontloading the cycle, to achieve peak levels immediately, and running it for 8 weeks - then having 2 weeks off and running the PCT. This will make recovery significantly easier, allow 4 weeks for PCT too. Plus you'd save money on the amount of adex, HCG and caber used. You could run a higher amount of AAS also - for the same cost as less for longer.. it is often the better choice IMO and is what i recommend the majority of the time - even for those who don't come off.
Brook - i'll consider frontloading the cycle, but i will say that there is something very appealing about a standard bread and butter 12 wk test/10 wk deca cycle. my plan is to run a "standard" cycle (as outlined above) and then, in the future, run a frontloaded cycle and compare the two. this reasoning (or lack thereof) is probably ignorance on my part, but i cant ignore the efficacy of a standard 12 wk/10 wk. so plain and simple: is this cycle as its outlined doable with a good shot at recovery (given the hcg and caber usage)? are there any other significant drawbacks other than a lengthier recovery time?
I would strongly recommend starting HCG from week 1. HPTA will be shut down in 2 days, so it is wise to start using HCG right away.
Your proposed cycle is quite well laid out. Given that oestrogen and prolactin are carefully managed, and HCG is used. Recovery shouldn't be a big issue. However, like brook have said, 2 shorter cycles would give similar if not better result, better recovery, and cheaper. e.g
Week 1-6 test prop 700+mg Week 1-10 AI with taper Week 1-6 HCG week 7-10 SERM PCT