T Nation

Test E & Dbol First Cycle

stats

age- 21
ht- 5’10’’
wt- 194 lbs
bf- 12%

1-12wks 500mg ew test e
1-5wks 40mg ed dbol
3 weeks after last pin of test start pct nolva 40-40-20-20 clo 100-100-50-50
have adex just incase, possibly only 4 weeks of dbol depending on sides

any advice besides me being too young

You’re too young- playing with fire, risking trt. Run the adex, not “just in case”. .25 ED. Add HCG 2x a week.

what dose of hcg would you recommend

fraud is right you need that AI fo sho. .25 ed or .5 eod.

I agree that it is not right for you at this age, BUT, I will play along, so give me some stats, i am an inch shorter and thirty puonds heavier, so I need to know why you are having such a hard time putting weight on?

Is it your diet? some guys are so worried about losing the cut/lean that they don’t eat enough, even for a bigger guy like me I have a hard time eating enough.

What are your max lifts? DL, SQ, Bench…and be honest don’t pad it, i can’t give you honest answer without the facts

i dont really have trouble putting on the weight, i just want to put it on now, 3 years ago i weighed 152lbs and now im 40 pounds heavier and have hit a bit of a slump. my diet is there, i could careless about being cut or lean thats why im running a cycle.

i honestly havent maxed in a while my last max out was about 4 or 5 months ago

bench- 335
dl-395
sq-365

ok…good bench, squat is a bit low and DL is ok for your weight, so are you lifting those big lifts regularly, and are you doing high weight low rep workouts? If you are trying to put on size you have to cut out cardio and eat a shit ton (for real a shit ton use the internet to count your calories and see where you are and you need a 45%protein 30%carb and 25% fat, or something close to that, no lower than 20% on fat and up tp 35% is ok if it is good stuff)

The thing is, I do high weight low rep now and every other week I see where I am, and you need to be lifting 5x5 or something of the sort to gain weight.

If you need some guidance on your routine let me know. I went from 340-390 in the last 4 months and it is because I went to high weight low reps. Its works, I am not trim, but 14-15%bf.

i think my squat is awful, i eat 5 meals a day, 3 big and 2 small plus good snacks in between, almonds, low fat cheese, ect.

i lift high weight low rep, for example, my bench press is usually 5 sets 6,6,6,4,4 increasing weight each set always heavy, alot of heavy dumbbell work every other week for chest.

i understand i have a lot of room to grow, i also understand i should wait until atleast 24-25 yo, but i want a kick start right now. i want more mass right now

only thing i dont agree with you on is cardio, i think there is a stigma surrounded with no cardio for bulking, i lived with a IFBB pro body builder for most of my life and even from nationals when he got his card to his first pro debut he did cardio atleast 2 times a week not intense in the off season but it was still there.

[quote]inKz.iTd wrote:
i think my squat is awful, i eat 5 meals a day, 3 big and 2 small plus good snacks in between, almonds, low fat cheese, ect.

i lift high weight low rep, for example, my bench press is usually 5 sets 6,6,6,4,4 increasing weight each set always heavy, alot of heavy dumbbell work every other week for chest.

i understand i have a lot of room to grow, i also understand i should wait until atleast 24-25 yo, but i want a kick start right now. i want more mass right now

only thing i dont agree with you on is cardio, i think there is a stigma surrounded with no cardio for bulking, i lived with a IFBB pro body builder for most of my life and even from nationals when he got his card to his first pro debut he did cardio atleast 2 times a week not intense in the off season but it was still there.[/quote]

Just curious, but if you lived with an IFBB pro for most of your life why not ask him?

Your stats are fine IMO I just wouldn’t touch it at your age. Trust me I understand your impatience x1000 I’m the same way. Anyway HCG run it at 500 IU 2x a week from weeks 3-10.

Also personally I’d just run 10 weeks, the gains start to slow down a lot for me at least around that time. Better to be shut down for less period of time IMO then you can run again a little sooner anyway if that’s your plan. Not a huge difference but food for thought.

alright thanks for the advice man

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]inKz.iTd wrote:
i think my squat is awful, i eat 5 meals a day, 3 big and 2 small plus good snacks in between, almonds, low fat cheese, ect.

i lift high weight low rep, for example, my bench press is usually 5 sets 6,6,6,4,4 increasing weight each set always heavy, alot of heavy dumbbell work every other week for chest.

i understand i have a lot of room to grow, i also understand i should wait until atleast 24-25 yo, but i want a kick start right now. i want more mass right now

only thing i dont agree with you on is cardio, i think there is a stigma surrounded with no cardio for bulking, i lived with a IFBB pro body builder for most of my life and even from nationals when he got his card to his first pro debut he did cardio atleast 2 times a week not intense in the off season but it was still there.[/quote]

Just curious, but if you lived with an IFBB pro for most of your life why not ask him?[/quote]

i dont live with him anymore, and i cant just send him a text or a fb message about gear or advice about gear, it could create possible problems

wow, ok, champion vs someone who is having probs with gains, think about that. You cant get as big as you want or gain the strength you want and he was a beast…apples and oranges bro, you can do cardio twice a week, but twice a day is killing your gains, I promise you. If you don’t agree fine, but I was a pro athlete and am pretty knowledgeable about working out. I don’t know as much as the vets about aas, but workouts…your call bro you wanna get bigger you cant burn all your calories on cardio period.

so diet may be ok, but I would do the calculations to make sure you are over 4000 calories and 45% protein

[quote]rupe8 wrote:
wow, ok, champion vs someone who is having probs with gains, think about that. You cant get as big as you want or gain the strength you want and he was a beast…apples and oranges bro, you can do cardio twice a week, but twice a day is killing your gains, I promise you. If you don’t agree fine, but I was a pro athlete and am pretty knowledgeable about working out. I don’t know as much as the vets about aas, but workouts…your call bro you wanna get bigger you cant burn all your calories on cardio period.

so diet may be ok, but I would do the calculations to make sure you are over 4000 calories and 45% protein[/quote]

you realize you just told this guy to eat over 450g of protein a day… He does not need even close to that but to each his own.

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]rupe8 wrote:
wow, ok, champion vs someone who is having probs with gains, think about that. You cant get as big as you want or gain the strength you want and he was a beast…apples and oranges bro, you can do cardio twice a week, but twice a day is killing your gains, I promise you. If you don’t agree fine, but I was a pro athlete and am pretty knowledgeable about working out. I don’t know as much as the vets about aas, but workouts…your call bro you wanna get bigger you cant burn all your calories on cardio period.

so diet may be ok, but I would do the calculations to make sure you are over 4000 calories and 45% protein[/quote]

you realize you just told this guy to eat over 450g of protein a day… He does not need even close to that but to each his own.[/quote]

he should probably stick to the workouts, why would anyone ever eat a 45% protein diet, im at 35%- protein 45%- carbs 20%- fat, give or take a little bit but pretty close to that on about 3500 calories… and as far as cardio twice a week at low intensity killing gains, thats retarded.

[quote]rupe8 wrote:
wow, ok, champion vs someone who is having probs with gains, think about that. You cant get as big as you want or gain the strength you want and he was a beast…apples and oranges bro, you can do cardio twice a week, but twice a day is killing your gains, I promise you. If you don’t agree fine, but I was a pro athlete and am pretty knowledgeable about working out. I don’t know as much as the vets about aas, but workouts…your call bro you wanna get bigger you cant burn all your calories on cardio period.

so diet may be ok, but I would do the calculations to make sure you are over 4000 calories and 45% protein[/quote]

DIET CALORIES PROTEIN CARBS FAT

7:00 AM 4 EGG WHITES, WHOLE TOAST 2 TBS PEANUT BUTTER 588 62g 60g 17g

9:00 AM FRUIT OR FAT FREE YOGURT 10 1g 25g 0g

12:00 PM 200g CHICKEN BREAST, VEGGIE, 195g WHEAT RICE 580 49g 49g 20g

3:00 PM MASS GAINER-MUSCLE JUICE 2600 1020 56g 175g 14g

5:00 PM WORKOUT- HYDRO BUILDER PB SANDWICH 630 47g 64g 20g

8:00 PM 200g STEAK/CHICKEN, VEGGIE, 195g WHEAT RICE 790 55g 49g 22g

10:00 PM FAT FREE YOGURT W/ 1 SCOOP PROTEIN POWDER 120 50g 16g 2g

TOTALS	3828	320g	438g	95g
				
CALORIES PER		1280	1752	855
				
PERCENT OF DAILY CONSUMPTION		33%	45%	22%

its pretty basic cals, protein, carbs, fat, but here you go just so you get that my diet is fine.

I may have come across wrong there, twice a week low intensity is fine. The problem is when guys wanna do cardio 45 in everyday and gain mass. If trying to gain super lean and cut then that is fine, and twice a week is fine, so sorry if I mislead you. There is another first cycle guy who said he was doing cardio 5 times a week before and after his workout, and trying to gain mass so maybe I was going of of that, my bad.

…and it is what works for me, because if I ate 45% carbs I would NOT stay trim. I start to get soft anywhere past 35% carbs. The protein keeps me full and doesn’t metabolize as fat as long as it is lean protein, so I use all my body needs and then gets rid of the rest. Carbs on the other hand would metabolize into fat if all weren’t burned. So it may not be right for you but it keeps my gains lean in a bulking cycle.

so, not retarded, just not for you, and it must work because at 5’9, 220 i bench 395 deadlift 565 and squat 495, full range of motion, and I run a 13:30 two mile, so I must be doing something right.

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]rupe8 wrote:
wow, ok, champion vs someone who is having probs with gains, think about that. You cant get as big as you want or gain the strength you want and he was a beast…apples and oranges bro, you can do cardio twice a week, but twice a day is killing your gains, I promise you. If you don’t agree fine, but I was a pro athlete and am pretty knowledgeable about working out. I don’t know as much as the vets about aas, but workouts…your call bro you wanna get bigger you cant burn all your calories on cardio period.

so diet may be ok, but I would do the calculations to make sure you are over 4000 calories and 45% protein[/quote]

you realize you just told this guy to eat over 450g of protein a day… He does not need even close to that but to each his own.[/quote]

It certainly wouldn’t hurt if he can stomach it.

no smart ass comments?..

[quote]inKz.iTd wrote:

only thing i dont agree with you on is cardio, i think there is a stigma surrounded with no cardio for bulking, i lived with a IFBB pro body builder for most of my life and even from nationals when he got his card to his first pro debut he did cardio atleast 2 times a week not intense in the off season but it was still there.[/quote]
So you lived with a ifbb pro but your coming to a forum asking for advice?