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Test E Cycle..Disappointed

#4

[quote]Hook24 wrote:
Although you didn’t notice any physical symptoms of high E2 it could account for the lack of libido and limited gains. With a test level of 2300 you would most definately have elevated E2. I think if you were to run that same cycle with Adex at .25mg EOD you would have experienced better results.[/quote]

I don’t think that high E supresses gains. But libido, sure.

#5

[quote]Hook24 wrote:
high E2 it could account for … limited gains. [/quote]

explain this please

#6

Well I did run the liquidex (.25mg EOD) for the first 5 weeks then stopped b/c I wasn’t sure if I really needed it. I have about 1 or 2 weeks left on my cycle.

@niksamaras I was hesitant to use anything other than Test E bc it was my first cycle. I’ll check it out. I was thinking of trying test Prop but at the end it’s still test I doubt that would make a difference.

#7

Hey Guys, this is the most clear and concise thread I have found regarding E2. It is a sticky from the T Replacement Forum and was written by Happydog.

From Happydog’s Estradiol Sticky.

"The first is that E2 is a powerful testosterone receptor antagonist. What this means is that estradiol binds to androgen receptors and renders them useless. When testosterone binds to an androgen receptor, it activates the receptor and you get the effect you’re looking for. When estradiol binds to that receptor, it blocks testosterone from binding, yet it does not active the receptor, so nothing happens.

This means that if your estradiol is high, no matter how much testosterone you have, it isn’t helping you as it should because too many of your androgen receptors are blocked by estradiol and your free testosterone has no where to go. Testosterone can’t do you any good if it doesn’t have receptors available to activate.

It can even get worse… because high levels of estradiol can cause the downregulation of androgen receptors. This means that your body may respond to higher levels of estradiol by creating fewer androgen receptors as cells are replaced in normal regeneration. In other words, not only does estradiol block the available androgen receptors, it causes your body to produce fewer of them in the future! This is one reason why raising testosterone levels may not have any immediate effect. It may be that your receptors have downregulated and so you’ll need to lower estradiol and increase testosterone in order to get your body to upregulate again and this takes time."

Hopefully I havn’t misinterpretted the information.

#8

[quote]iceman39 wrote:
25 yrs old been lifting seriously for about 6 yrs but starting “lifting” when I was about 15 yrs old. weight around 208lbs max lifts are bench ~300lbs, squat ~400lbs and deadlift ~420 lbs. This was my first cycle ever. I am doing 500mg of Test E a week (injecting twice a week). I had liquidex for gyno but never experienced any symptoms. I wanted to do a bulk cycle and put on some real solid mass. Before starting my week was around 199lbns. Currently I am just finishing up week 8 and my weight only went up to around 209lbs. I know the stuff is legit bc I had my test levels measured a few weeks ago and they were 2300 ng/dl. I’ve been eating around 2g of protein per lb and taking in around 4400 cals per day. I only do light cardio twice a week. I lift 5 days a week hitting each body part once. My strength has gone up some but nothing significant. I just had really high hopes and feel a little let down. I never experienced the crazy libido increase or extreme intensity at the gym. Wondering if anyone else has ever had this experience? Maybe Test e isn’t for me and IF i try AAS again I should try something different. [/quote]

The 500mg per week flat dosage for test regardless of bodyweight is a balls reccomendation. Since you are over 200lbs and already fairly strong, just run more next time, a gram isn’t as much as it sounds, and add some dbol for six weeks. You’ll get a much better result. You probably need to eat a lot more too, calorie wise. I think tren is perhaps a bit too much for a second cycle nik lol.

Tren is something like 3-5 times more anabolic than test so 350mg tren = 1.0-1.5g of test. Not exactly a fair comparision!

#9

[quote]iceman39 wrote:
25 yrs old been lifting seriously for about 6 yrs but starting “lifting” when I was about 15 yrs old. weight around 208lbs max lifts are bench ~300lbs, squat ~400lbs and deadlift ~420 lbs. This was my first cycle ever. I am doing 500mg of Test E a week (injecting twice a week). I had liquidex for gyno but never experienced any symptoms. I wanted to do a bulk cycle and put on some real solid mass. Before starting my week was around 199lbns. Currently I am just finishing up week 8 and my weight only went up to around 209lbs. I know the stuff is legit bc I had my test levels measured a few weeks ago and they were 2300 ng/dl. I’ve been eating around 2g of protein per lb and taking in around 4400 cals per day. I only do light cardio twice a week. I lift 5 days a week hitting each body part once. My strength has gone up some but nothing significant. I just had really high hopes and feel a little let down. I never experienced the crazy libido increase or extreme intensity at the gym. Wondering if anyone else has ever had this experience? Maybe Test e isn’t for me and IF i try AAS again I should try something different. [/quote]

Your androgen receptors are blocked by estradiol and your free testosterone has no where to go.

Read all you can here:

Google exemestane and research supply for aromatase inhibitors.

#10

Yeah I don’t believe the evidence exists that E2 is out-competing test for ARs in typical people. Links to previous postings on here really don’t mean much if anything. E2 can bind somewhat to AR under some circumstances…there’s a co-factor, ARA70, for example, that is involved, and some people have defective / mutated (however you want to call it) alleles that lead to strong E2 binding. In any event, even if we assume some E2 binding to AR, the affinity is going to be far lower than that of T or DHT, and the effective concentration of E2 is also going to be far lower (that T, at least) while on cylce. Most of the negatives from excess E2 come simply from ER-mediated effects. I’m not going to hit up Pubmed on this today; I’ve researched it before when the hazy but often repeated “it’s the T to E ratio that matters” mantra started to irritate me due to lack of support.

As for the OP, the bottom line is some people grow like crazy on small amounts of AAS, others don’t. Increased libido is a complicated matter that isn’t all that dose dependent, and is often better on lower doses of test (and needless to say with other compounds like tren). My best advice is if you do things properly with legit gear and still don’t respond, don’t throw your health away bumping up doses.

#11

[quote]whotookmyname wrote:
Yeah I don’t believe the evidence exists that E2 is out-competing test for ARs in typical people. Links to previous postings on here really don’t mean much if anything. E2 can bind somewhat to AR under some circumstances…there’s a co-factor, ARA70, for example, that is involved, and some people have defective / mutated (however you want to call it) alleles that lead to strong E2 binding. In any event, even if we assume some E2 binding to AR, the affinity is going to be far lower than that of T or DHT, and the effective concentration of E2 is also going to be far lower (that T, at least) while on cylce. Most of the negatives from excess E2 come simply from ER-mediated effects. I’m not going to hit up Pubmed on this today; I’ve researched it before when the hazy but often repeated “it’s the T to E ratio that matters” mantra started to irritate me due to lack of support.

As for the OP, the bottom line is some people grow like crazy on small amounts of AAS, others don’t. Increased libido is a complicated matter that isn’t all that dose dependent, and is often better on lower doses of test (and needless to say with other compounds like tren). My best advice is if you do things properly with legit gear and still don’t respond, don’t throw your health away bumping up doses. [/quote]

We can put an end to the speculation if he will do the necessary lab blood work.

If his E2 is high or out of range that would indicate that he should take the advice from the links posted. The human body does what it can to regulate itself.

You join and go to the nearest lab for definitive numbers:

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/ItemLC100012/Male-Basic-Hormone-Panel-Blood-Test.html

Any questions? Happy aspirating.

#12

I have had a similar experience, 9 weeks in to my first cycle ever at 40 years old. 500mg/week of Test E and just very… so-so results. Stronger, and bigger, but not by leaps and bounds. I look in the mirror and see a guy that works out, but I don’t look like a guy on steroids. NO ONE would ever accuse me of being on, lol! Not bad results but I was expecting more.

I’ve also had horrible ED the past 4 weeks, after having crazy random boners at work at the beginning of the cycle. Lost wood having sex with a new girl over and over. Disaster.

I got bloodwork done because of the ED, came back SCREAMING high Total T at 4,092. But, my estradiol was 105! 300% higher than a normal level of 35’ish. An ideal rockstar in the gym and bedroom level is probably closer to 20.

What’s the lesson?? Do the damn bloodwork! I’m back on A-dex that I was originally taking and then stopped because I GUESSED and misdiagnosed myself as having low E2. Get the bloodwork, it’s the only way to KNOW. The high E has definitely hamstringed my first cycle. Live and learn. It won’t be my last. :wink:

#13

similar results from 12 week test e cycle…500mg once a week (oh well) took almost 6 weeks before it kicked in gained around 5kg may have lost a bit of body fat so might have been technically better…really felt I was just starting to peak at the end of my cycle…had adex eod .25 Im 40…was thinking next time def dbol at the start plus longer cycle14-16 weeks possibly with another oral at the end…strength went up but not crazy!..put 20kg on my bench

#14

[quote]porkster wrote:
similar results from 12 week test e cycle…500mg once a week (oh well) took almost 6 weeks before it kicked in gained around 5kg may have lost a bit of body fat so might have been technically better…really felt I was just starting to peak at the end of my cycle…had adex eod .25 Im 40…was thinking next time def dbol at the start plus longer cycle14-16 weeks possibly with another oral at the end…strength went up but not crazy!..put 20kg on my bench[/quote]

Really that is not too bad, weight gain could have been a bit more. Proper diet is the issue for getting the best weight gain. Nice strength increase. When you think the serious lifters have been at it for years and multiple cycles, you are just at the beginning. Two years of similar results and two cycles a year would put you at a 100 kilo increase, that is huge. If you started even at 100kg, how many do you see benching 200kg? Seriously. In two years to be benching 200kg you would be the beast at any gym.

The first cycle is really a test run to see how it all works. I think it was after my second cycle when I really felt like I had a good idea of how it all worked.

#15

[quote]GoCal wrote:
The first cycle is really a test run to see how it all works. I think it was after my second cycle when I really felt like I had a good idea of how it all worked.[/quote]

True! That’s how my buddy encouraged me to think about it when I was bitching about the money, injections, work, diet… for very marginal results. He was basically like ‘Well what? Did you expect to get it all right the first time?’

My biggest mistake was not doing bloodwork when I SUSPECTED something was amiss. It’s hard to diagnose on symptoms alone. Spend the money. I had run-away E for a solid 7 weeks of a 12 week cycle. Feels pretty stupid doing painful IM injections for nothing.

My second biggest mistake was thinking I was smarter than the experienced guys on the forum. If everyone is saying you NEED to run an AI, every cycle of Test no matter who you are, then adjust if necessary, don’t think you’re going to be the one guy that doesn’t apply to.

#16

Hey Ice, Make sure you post during and after pct, to let us know how much of your gains you keep?

#17

[quote]Beyond Beyond wrote:
Hey Ice, Make sure you post during and after pct, to let us know how much of your gains you keep? [/quote]

well his cycle was in 2013, so…

#18

[quote]mattoondah wrote:

[quote]GoCal wrote:

My second biggest mistake was thinking I was smarter than the experienced guys on the forum. If everyone is saying you NEED to run an AI, every cycle of Test no matter who you are, then adjust if necessary, don’t think you’re going to be the one guy that doesn’t apply to.
[/quote]

The sooner we all learned this lesson the better off we were. I have wasted more time in life trying to reinvent the wheel.

#19

You are absolutely correct Yogi. My request for updates should have been for Mattoondah.

#20

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]Beyond Beyond wrote:
Hey Ice, Make sure you post during and after pct, to let us know how much of your gains you keep? [/quote]

well his cycle was in 2013, so…[/quote]

My first cycle pretty much started back in November of 2012… I am still on it.

#21

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]Beyond Beyond wrote:
Hey Ice, Make sure you post during and after pct, to let us know how much of your gains you keep? [/quote]

well his cycle was in 2013, so…[/quote]

My first cycle pretty much started back in November of 2012… I am still on it.[/quote]

Reed, if you don’t mind saying, where were you at when you started in 2012 on the main lifts and body composition/weight and where are you at now? I know you are more of a dedicated power lifter than many, but I think goes to show that one 12 week cycle doesn’t make Superman.

#22

all the guys I know who were too lazy and undisciplined to do bodybuilding do powerlifting.

#23

500 should have got something imo… they guys are right probably e & diet. Also are you 100% sure the test was legit? Even with no ai after I pin 2-3 mls im horny as hell. Also maybe sleep stress & workout… maybe up your cals, intensity, & juice and go hard 4 more weeks. I think if done right you could squeeze 8 more lbs… on 500-750 got 20lbs kept 15