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Test Dosage Too Low?

I am a 53 yr young BB. I have been training for many years and in the last 2 years started taking my dieting very serious and have had great results. I currently weigh 230 lbs at around 10% BF. Very muscular with very good strength. So I decided to get into the BB competition. I wanted some help getting to the next level of muscularity so I told my Dr that I thought my T level may be low since I was getting tired in the middle of the day. My trainer said there was no way my T level was low with all the muscle I had put on. My wife said there was no way my T level was low since I chase her around the house every morning with a hard d…

Well I convinced the doc to run the test and it came back with a 199 reading. According to him the acceptable level should be 241-827, so he prescribed 1ml to be taken 50 mg per month. My wife is a RN so he let her do the injections. I have only had the first dose and I convinced her to give me 100mg instead of 50mg. She agreed since being in the medical field she knew that most docs would be very conservative in their dosage and she had administered other patients with 100mg doses. The very next day I felt more energetic. So I know it does help.

But after talking with my trainer and others in the gym who have taken T for bodybuilding they all say even the 100 mg dose is too low and not going to give me the results I’m looking for. Sorry for the long post but would love some advice from others who have experence with taking T. Also E level was not considered in testing. Should this be a concern? I had read that the T would not work without taking something else with it. Thanks in advance for the advice.

Check out the stickies in the Steroid Forum. Lots of good info there…

There is a big difference between cycles and TRT. You will no doubt feel much better soon if you only follow your trt instructions. Study,read, and study some more. You have made great strides with your training and you could seriously damage your health if your not careful. Here is a link to start. Good luck

http://www.allthingsmale.com/word_docs/TRT.doc

The relative TRT increase in T will allow for major gains.

You need to be testing E2=estradiol. Most need an aromatase inhibitor to manage E2 levels. A good target level is 22pg/ml [0-54]. Arimidex/anastrozole is the best AI. aka adex, l-dex. Adex has a 36 hour half life which makes EOD dosing ideal. Search and read about adex over-responders.

Injections once a week create peaks and lows that many find a problem. Injecting the weekly amount more often in divided doses produces a better result. The T level peaks from injecting once a week also drives E2 higher.

TRT will shutdown your natural production. Google ‘HPTA wiki’. With no LH production, your testes will shrink and your scrotum will pull up tight. This also stops pregnenolone production that is important for general and mental health. hCG is used as a replacement for hCG and is injected 250iu SC EOD.

A successful protocol is 100mg/week testosterone ester, injected two times per week, 1.0 mg/week anastrozole in divided doses, 250iu hCG SC EOD. You need all three of these.

I and some others inject T EOD at the same time as hCG and AI. That makes a good routine.

Other tests: hematocrit [can elevate in response to TRT for some, PSA [looking to see if PSA levels increase significantly which could indicate prostate cancer]. Most should expect elevated cholesterol levels to approach healthy levels.

Do not shrug off the possible effects of estradiol. Levels in the 30’s can cause mood/depression problems, low libido, ED and low energy/initiative for guys on TRT who have TT levels in the 850-1000 range. Watch for a loss of libido, that is the first warning sign.

Snoring can increase.

Watch for a persistent hunger that meals or snacks do not satisfy. This can be a protein hunger. If whey shakes satisfy such a hunger, that possibility is confirmed. This is caused by increased demand for amino acids by the muscles and/or increase GH release.

A few report leg cramps. That seems to be transient.

You can expect a huge increase in sex drive. This is largely transient. Make the best of this while it lasts and do not let estrogen poisoning spoil this once in a life time event.

One ml per month … 50mg? Test cypionate or test ethante are typically 200mg/ml. One injects 0.5ml per week to get 100mg/week. These are also available as 100mg/ml but not seen very often. Injecting every two, three of four weeks will probably do more harm than good… increased estrogens while reducing your own production.

You do not need to do injections in the glutes. You can inject into the vastus lateralis with shorter, thinner needles. There is no need to use a needle thicker than #23. Some use a #25 x 1" 1ml for injections in the arms or legs. A few use #29 .5" .5ml 50iu insulin syringes… slow to load but injection times are reasonable. A short thin needle is going to produce less cumulative muscle damage compared to the larger and longer needles.

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[quote]CrazyCrew wrote:
There is a big difference between cycles and TRT. You will no doubt feel much better soon if you only follow your trt instructions. Study,read, and study some more.

You have made great strides with your training and you could seriously damage your health if your not careful. Here is a link to start. Good luck

http://www.allthingsmale.com/word_docs/TRT.doc[/quote]

Thanks, I read the article and it helps me understand better what the f… I’m doing. I feel pretty stupid for starting this without first educating myself. I just assumed doctors knew what they were doing and had your best interest in mind Shame on me

OK in a nutshell what I have gathered thus far…I started with a 100mg injection (instead of the prescribed 50mg) I stay on a weekly dose of 100 mg until I have my next lab work done which according to the article suggests 5 weeks.

The article further suggest that to not introduce the AI before the next lab work unless I experience nipple issues. Is this a fairly safe recommendation?

[quote]hammertime2 wrote:
OK in a nutshell what I have gathered thus far…I started with a 100mg injection (instead of the prescribed 50mg) I stay on a weekly dose of 100 mg until I have my next lab work done which according to the article suggests 5 weeks.

The article further suggest that to not introduce the AI before the next lab work unless I experience nipple issues. Is this a fairly safe recommendation? [/quote]

What do you do about running out of T later on?

Nipple problems are a problem. But you need to take action sooner than that. Libido changes fast when E2 is too high. If your libido starts to drop… you have E!

When you find libido dropping, getting an appointment and or lab going and waiting for results that your doc does not undertand is not going to be much fun. I advocate adex from day one with the next lab driving a dose change instead of a late start.

[quote]KSman wrote:
hammertime2 wrote:
OK in a nutshell what I have gathered thus far…I started with a 100mg injection (instead of the prescribed 50mg) I stay on a weekly dose of 100 mg until I have my next lab work done which according to the article suggests 5 weeks.

The article further suggest that to not introduce the AI before the next lab work unless I experience nipple issues. Is this a fairly safe recommendation?

What do you do about running out of T later on?

Nipple problems are a problem. But you need to take action sooner than that. Libido changes fast when E2 is too high. If your libido starts to drop… you have E!

When you find libido dropping, getting an appointment and or lab going and waiting for results that your doc does not undertand is not going to be much fun. I advocate adex from day one with the next lab driving a dose change instead of a late start.[/quote]

Yeah I have enough for 10- 100mg doses so that gives me time to find a real doc that knows something about this You’re probably right about the AI…I assume that’s something that has to be prescribed also or is it something you can get at a GNC?

What number of refills are noted on the Rx label?

AIs are precribed, but there are other ways.

[quote]KSman wrote:
What number of refills are noted on the Rx label?

AIs are precribed, but there are other ways.[/quote]

no refills

wow, took second dose of 100mg friday night and my wife says all men need to be on this stuff! Can’t wait to get back in the gym and lift heavy. If this small dosing is having this kind of effect I can’t imagine what ASA dosage must be like. I guess it effects everyone differently.

KSman is one of the most knowledgeable posters here. If you take his advice you won’t get into trouble.
I’m currently on 200mg’s/week of T-Cyp and have good results in both the gym and the house. (hint, hint). I agree; don’t let Estrogen become an issue before you attempt to treat it. Google “research chemicals” and look for anastrozole (adex) to see it is widely available and cost effective w/o a script.

Ask us here where not to go to buy the stuff, as some suppliers are better than others.
BTW, the paperwork that comes with the T-Cyp bottle has recommended dosage instructions. Use that for leverage with your doctor if possible.

[quote]KNB wrote:
KSman is one of the most knowledgeable posters here. If you take his advice you won’t get into trouble.

I’m currently on 200mg’s/week of T-Cyp and have good results in both the gym and the house. (hint, hint). I agree; don’t let Estrogen become an issue before you attempt to treat it. Google “research chemicals” and look for anastrozole (adex) to see it is widely available and cost effective w/o a script.

Ask us here where not to go to buy the stuff, as some suppliers are better than others.
BTW, the paperwork that comes with the T-Cyp bottle has recommended dosage instructions. Use that for leverage with your doctor if possible.[/quote]

wow I didn’t think to look at the paperwork for recommended dosages! I am looking into another doc that hopefully will give me some better diagnostics!

Thanks for the advice on the adex as well. I’ve only had 2 doses of 100mg and can already tell a difference, can’t imagine what getting on a proper dosage is going to be like. I will post up lab results as soon as I get this new doc connected.

[quote]hammertime2 wrote:
KNB wrote:
KSman is one of the most knowledgeable posters here. If you take his advice you won’t get into trouble.

I’m currently on 200mg’s/week of T-Cyp and have good results in both the gym and the house. (hint, hint). I agree; don’t let Estrogen become an issue before you attempt to treat it. Google “research chemicals” and look for anastrozole (adex) to see it is widely available and cost effective w/o a script.

Ask us here where not to go to buy the stuff, as some suppliers are better than others.
BTW, the paperwork that comes with the T-Cyp bottle has recommended dosage instructions. Use that for leverage with your doctor if possible.

wow I didn’t think to look at the paperwork for recommended dosages! I am looking into another doc that hopefully will give me some better diagnostics! Thanks for the advice on the adex as well. I’ve only had 2 doses of 100mg and can already tell a difference, can’t imagine what getting on a proper dosage is going to be like. I will post up lab results as soon as I get this new doc connected.[/quote]

Did the goggle and pulled up the first website at the top, which does have the adex, should I mention this website by name to find out if it is ok? Also the description says, “for research purposes only, could be harmful if ingested” that’s scary! or is that a secret code?

[quote]hammertime2 wrote:
hammertime2 wrote:
KNB wrote:
KSman is one of the most knowledgeable posters here. If you take his advice you won’t get into trouble.

I’m currently on 200mg’s/week of T-Cyp and have good results in both the gym and the house. (hint, hint). I agree; don’t let Estrogen become an issue before you attempt to treat it. Google “research chemicals” and look for anastrozole (adex) to see it is widely available and cost effective w/o a script.

Ask us here where not to go to buy the stuff, as some suppliers are better than others.
BTW, the paperwork that comes with the T-Cyp bottle has recommended dosage instructions. Use that for leverage with your doctor if possible.

wow I didn’t think to look at the paperwork for recommended dosages! I am looking into another doc that hopefully will give me some better diagnostics!

Thanks for the advice on the adex as well. I’ve only had 2 doses of 100mg and can already tell a difference, can’t imagine what getting on a proper dosage is going to be like. I will post up lab results as soon as I get this new doc connected.

Did the goggle and pulled up the first website at the top, which does have the adex, should I mention this website by name to find out if it is ok? Also the description says, “for research purposes only, could be harmful if ingested” that’s scary! or is that a secret code?[/quote]

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