General question about stacking with Test C. Working on a 12 wk blast, currently 400 mg/wk, added 50 mg oxandrolone for past 4 wks. Any one have any experience adding nandrolone or is it better to do it next cycle? New to the process after many years natty. No adverse effects with the test c before adding oxandrolone, and none after oxandrolone. I was initially worried about sexual side effects of nandrolone but I’m considering trialing small doses to see how I respond.
What’s does this mean? Could you be more specific? What data did you collect to support this statement?
Here you go, easily 10 hours of my time to you for free. More information than most care for, because it’s easier to use AAS when you really don’t understand their true impact.
You have shared no information on your risk tolerance. Based on my risk tolerance and goal to compress morbidity while emphasizing longevity, I dropped the Test C to under 100 mg/week since I do TRT, dropped the oxandrolone, run from nandrolone.
Thanks I’ve read most of those. No adverse effects means from what I can tell without looking into nandrolone effects on cardio. No gyno, no mood, no libido, etc etc. I feel fine and yes I understand the negative impacts, I’ve know and have read enough to evaluate the risk and am willing to take it. I’m not posting on TRT forum, thats why I moved it to pharma. Looking for advice to see if anyone has stacked the three personally.
Have you personally used nandrolone, why run? Yes I’ve read all the posts pertaining and did research any articles I could find. Just curious. Haven’t used it yet. I started with Oxandrolone since it is supposed to be a mild oral, and for me so far it has been.
Yes, I have stacked the three and my outcome was atrial fibrillation. OF course the wild card was I was also using 150 mcg of T4/d and 50 mcg/d of T3 while doing regular HIIT and pushing 400 W FTP on the bike.
Good luck to you and take care.
Yes. See the second thread I linked above:
I’m doing a very similar stack now. I haven’t started the anavar yet but I wanted to wait until closer to the end of my cycle. I haven’t had any noticeable sides from the NPP, but one that was brought to my attention thanks to @readalot is the potential hardening/weakening of my heart chambers. My sys/dia numbers have grown wider apart. Otherwise I feel fine, but this is definitely something I need to really consider in the future.
I would say that since this is your first cycle, I would recommend adding as few compounds and using as little gear as possible. No point in ruining your sensitivity to AAS or adding unnecessary problems when you should still be able to get ALOT out of your current protocol.
Another thing I’ll add is that since you’re already 4 weeks into a 12 week blast, Deca would be worthless because by the time it builds up in your system, it’s time to come off. NPP would be the way to go. But again, take the health side effects into consideration, and know that nandrolone comes with a whole different slew of sides. It does not act/react the same way in your body as test or Var
Thanks. That’s a good point about the timing, I’ll save it for now. I do like oxandrolone but I’ll either want to replace it with something stronger or stack something else next cycle. I did read your post about your blood pressure changes the other day, I started monitoring my BP when I started. What would stack well with test and oxandrolone, or should I just replace it? It doesn’t matter to me if it’s oral or inject able.
I’d be a real hypocrite to try to encourage you to not use AAS, but I will encourage you to take the sides seriously. It’s very easy to say “here for a good time not a long time” and I don’t believe in fear mongering either. Your body your choice.
With that said, it generally seems to be better to stay away from stacking orals due to their liver toxicity. Otherwise, I have been having a blast on NPP and Test. Nandrolone is known as a great mass builder. I hear alot about it making you holding water, but I have not had that issue. I also have a pretty clean diet, which, from what I often read on here, does not seem to be the case often enough. My personal experience with water retention comes from a poor sodium:potassium ratio (too much sodium and not enough potassium) which is largely where high blood pressure comes from as well.
It seems to often to be preached that we need to reduce sodium to lower blood pressure, but in reality all you’re doing is stabilizing your sodium to potassium ratio. There are at least a couple of studies that show that individuals consuming tons of sodium are actually some of the most heart healthy individuals, BUT this is because they also take in an adequate amount of potassium (found in large quantities in spinach, sweet potatoes, yogurt, beef, and fruit).
A bit of a tangent, but I guess my point is that many sides can be exacerbated by poor diet.
@wsmwannabe not directing what’s below to you personally but to the general reader:
Fair enough and I will stop being a “Debbie Downer” in this thread after this post. But it’s very easy to say this stuff when you are feeling on top of the world and have not suffered a major health scare. Not saying it will happen, but if it does, be prepared for a drastic change in attitude. The attitude then becomes, “My body, please Doc help me.”
Of course you don’t know how you will respond until you experience such a thing. And I sincerely hope it doesn’t happen to anyone. How would such an event affect your family, significant other, kids? If you have such relationships, it really isn’t “My Body, My Choice.” That’s the attitude of a pre-25 year old whose brain hasn’t fully matured and I am guilty myself.
The idea of “safe and effective methods of using anabolics” as this forum purports sounds good in theory, but what’s your plan when it fails in practice?
Here’s a resource to help you consider the potential impact. I would think you would spend as much time assessing risk vs reward as you would asking questions such as “does this stack look good?”
The mental sides can be more devastating than the physical ones. None of this is specific to a “heart attack” per se, but could be manifest after experiencing any heart-related scare.
That is all, have a nice day, and take care of yourself
@readalot I appreciate every thing you are saying. I’ve run the risk benefit analysis for myself already. I understand more than most human physiology, good and bad, and absolutely understand that there are side effects to everything talked about in this pharma forum. As I haven’t had any yet, of course they can happen. Just looking for input not found in a study, from folks who have real experience themselves, just like you’ve shared. Interestingly enough when talking about the mental/behavioral effects, in my personal case so far I have found a calming effect, something I was not expecting at all. Also, a complete absence of migraine headaches. I was taking an experimental drug prior to using testosterone, of which effects weren’t even documented yet. I’ve stopped that med fully. I did read a few studies that low T can cause migraines, and after battling them for more than 30 years, this has been a God send.
My pleasure and I wish you the best. Glad the Test is helping with your mood and migraines. I was curious how you went from 150 mg/week of Test (TRT, didn’t you start end of June?) to now running 400 mg/week of Test (blast) in August? You move fast unless I am missing something.
TRT = gateway drug for those over 35. When I first saw your post (BTW, my compliments on using the terms oxandrolone and nandrolone instead of VAR and DECA) I thought to myself, oh yes, he’s found himself the proper Anabolic Doc.
I agree on this, I would lower the age though. I started trt at 31ish, and ran a test / oxandrolone cycle at 32.
You hit the nail on the head. I was always outside looking in. I’ve been into bodybuilding for years so even though I didn’t dabble with AAS I’ve done a lot of research. Life circumstances (fertility) kept me clean, and now that the factory is closed the biggest deterrent for me with AAS is gone. So, once you dip your toe in…why not I suppose? That and by now in my life since I’m not competing naturally anymore, I have some time to make up! I was going to type a Anavar but I believe it was one of your posts @readalot talking about how Anavar is no longer in production I learned something hahaha.
Exactly. I was just worried about shutdown, and not coming back. Then I learned my TT was upper 300 and my FT was low teens. So I hopped on TRT, and now the temptation is real to do light cycles, but listening to guys like @readalot and @unreal24278 has me worried about my heart health.
Life truly has poetic justice. I sit on more test, nd, and oxandrolone than I could ever possibly use but now won’t touch it. I was smarter when younger to never touch it @dptfit, but we get a chance in life to never stop learning. I wish you guys the best and hope you find what works for you.
Also thanks for confirming @unreal24278 and I aren’t just posting into the void.
Thanks @readalot, I always appreciate your input. I don’t think I conveyed the message in the way I meant to. What I was trying to say is, don’t just throw caution to the wind and make sure you really weight the benefits:risks, but at the same time (and I’m very libertarian in this way) put what you want to in your body so long as it doesn’t negatively impact others (which I totally get about how does it affect your family, this is something I have to strongly consider).
Also, there is a long list of people that I would like to name, but I won’t because it’ll be too damn long, but you and @unreal24278 (at least in my opinion) are pretty highly regarded and I try to really take to heart the things you two (and others) say.
And I guess I can clean up my use of the word “Anavar” haha.
@dptfit I think you’ve been given some really good data, both scientific and anecdotal (I think between myself and readalot you got both ends of the short term side effect spectrum). Even with as well as it is going for me currently, you still need to really plan it out and consider all of the factors. If it is something you “have to do” (which for me it was I suppose) it wouldn’t hurt to start at a low dose and pump it up later if you seem to do “ok”
I can definitely appreciate the cautious approach most people on this forum take with regards to AAS, it is most definitely better than the alternative of people saying “yea bro, fuck it take 3 g tren/week and you’ll be jacked in 2 weeks and dead in 3”.
Thanks for taking the time to write this thoughtful statement. What I am trying to convey (which I don’t feel I am doing a good job with but is important) is that even with the most meticulous planning and discipline, stuff can go south very quickly. Maybe my experience is an aberration (1 in 10,000), I don’t know. Perhaps you (reader at large) will have a very different experience. In my case I thought I had all the theory and discipline in the world. Start low, go slow. Add in one thing at a time at low dose and gauge response.
The issue is that if you see good results you’ll continue to ramp up and continue to push yourself (if you have my compulsive drive) until something breaks. Think resistances in series if you are familiar with the term. AAS allow you to shift the rate limiting step to a place it shouldn’t be shifted sometimes, namely your cardiopulmonary system or connective tissue/joints. Looking back perhaps I should have been doing LISS cardio instead of acting like a maniac on the assault bike and stationary bike. These are all variables you have to consider and almost impossible to accurately predict what will happen.
The synergistic action of combining AAS, thyroid medication (which I was using for medically valid condition), crazy workouts is nonlinear and impossible to predict. Human nature dictates that if you have some modest success you will continue to explore the response surface till you break something. If you have the discipline to avoid this temptation then my hats off to you.
EDIT: another perspective might be I am lucky as I had a wake up call before I did more lasting semi-permanent/permament damage to my heart. Hard to say. Just don’t neglect the mental aspect of all this. I am 6 months from AFIB episode and am still affected every single day, every time I exert myself. I am sharing this because I care about you and don’t want anyone else to have to go through it. But sometimes that’s the only way for it to sink in. We all think we are bulletproof until shown we aren’t.
I guess with socialized health care that isn’t possible to seperate. I thought about that statement a while ago and came to the conclusion that in Germany it really isn’t possible to not negatively impact others if you fuck up your body. Same would go for food. Fat people really negatively impact others that way cause somebody has to pay for the consequences of their behavior. Same for alcohol and so on.
But if I’m looking at the big picture, I think I overblow it like the climate activists with the cow farts because our state always says it doesn’t have money for schools, universities, old people, health care but then blows out billions on other shit.