T Nation

Test and DHEA Symbiosis Theory


#1

I have high total testosterone, and ED that is getting worse from my mid 20s. Now at 31 ED is primary reason I am looking for help. Although I am 6'1",190P and have solid body strength I dont think that I have developed as I should in puberty from that much testosterone potential in my body.

Body fat around thighs, not big hands, forearms nor shoulders. Very small adams apple, average 6" penis, not so much self esteem and kind of shy whole of my life. Basically all man-masculinity features are average... Its not genetics !

Recently I started to research and thought that whole of my life (even in mothers womb) my testosterone was suppressed by other hormons or other factors in my body... my first suspect was too much conversion to estrogen. Here are my labs;

Testosterone: 982 ng/dL high-normal
LH: 3.0 mlU/mL normal
FSH: 3.7 mlU/mL normal
Progesterone 0.4 (ref <0.46) normal
E2(estradiol): 36 (ref <75pg/ml) normal
DHEA-S: 58mcg/dl (ref 150-445) VERY LOW

Based on labs, estrogen was not an issue, but DHEA. I do feel symtoms of low DHEA, I did even in puberty. Since I read that DHEA is precursor to tt, is it possible that my body converts too much DHEA to TT?
Another theory goes further; DHEA goes to a pathway where it is converted to TT then quickly converted to DHT and then to another hormone(forgot which one) which is believed that sentisizes cells (or its androgen receptors) to TT, so that TT could start developing masculine body parts (especially in puberty).

This final theory makes sense in my case; there was not enough DHEA in puberty to "open the gate" for testosterone to build muscles and bones.
I have started taking DHEA 25mg for start. Does anyone have any experience with rising DHEA levels, how did you feel when DHEA levels rose...

Br


#2

I am 45 - Before I started TRT I took DHEA for a year - about 100mg - 150mg daily , along with DIM . It did boost my muscle mass ( about the same amount as on TRT ) but did not help me loose fat . Since I had no ED problems during that period of life it did not effect my erections or libido . Before I started TRT ( test cyp ) I had blood levels done - my DHEA-s level was sky high and my TT level was below normal . Stopping DHEA for 4 months my TT level never recouped and stayed low . Dr offered Test cyp rx so I took it and started TRT . My E2 levels jumped to 64 and I got ED - I started anastrozole and brought my E2 down to 23 and ED went away . I can tell you ED is tricky to figure out , but it was definitely a hormone imbalance that caused it . Good luck with your situation


#3

Thanks mate on posting ur experience, appriciate it. I am at begining of this "journey" in altering my screwed DHEA levels.. Any kind of response from personal experience is like gold to me.
So now I will closely monitor my testosterone levels.. Looks like there is some kind of negative "feedback loop" that lowers testosterone, when taking DHEA. But why, since it doesnt rise TT levels?
Did u have low DHEA and/or TT before taking DHEA as supplement?


#4

I was actually reading about dheas today because I got my lab results back and didn't know what to think of the results. Mine is just barely over the high range. I can't figure out if that is a good or bad thing.

Sorry I didn't really contribute to the thread, hope you figure everything out op.


#5

Before I took DHEA my TT level was in low normal range . I have no idea on my DHEA range prior to me taking it . Btw my DHEA level while on TRT is low normal . I think you are right about the negative loop of TT and DHEA . If you are going to experiment with DHEA take the micronized grade - btw I made a DHEA transdermal cream to use like androgel .


#6

Thanks on replay. Bro, you look very impressive on that picture. How old r u, and do u have along with DHEA also high natural TT ? You just could contribute by giving more info about your self..
I am conviced that EVERY ONE WHO had natural high DHEA and TT in puberty would naturally have well above average all man-masculinity features (big shoulders, muscles, adams apple, penis, testicles etc). Can you confirm this ?
Hope this is not to intimate question to you. You can also PM me.

N


#7

Since u started with low normal range, could it be that your TT levels were going low regardless on taking DHEA ?
Last night with my gf I had very good erection (mybe 80%). Its been a while since that happened last time. I dont know if it is to early (after 4 days on 25mg), but dont what else could it be but the DHEA...

N


#8

Transdermal Magnesium helped boost my DHEA-s levels. I used magnesium oil that comes in a spray bottle. Also helps with sleep a little. I'm at the high end of normal with no DHEA supplementation. If I take 25mg of DHEA EOD or even twice a week, I'm over the normal range.


#9

My TRT doctor considers DHEA the hormone with the largest influence on sex drive. I am not sure about ED.

Oral DHEA is a good starting point, but be careful with oral DHEA since it may convert to too much E2 and cause high estrogen problems. If this happens, transdermal DHEA is said to be better in this regard.

If it converts into too much E2, supplemental DHEA can indeed reduce testosterone via negative feedback. However, this won't necessarily happen in your case. The only way to know is with testing.

My DHEA is also quite low (around 80, which is below the lower limit too), but unfortunately I don't respond well to DHEA supplementation, oral or transdermal. It makes me feel achy and miserable for some reason. I've never figured out how to raise it without causing this problem.


#10

Not sure if picture comment was for me - but during that picture I had low TT of 200 and high DHEA - about 800 ( because I was taking it ) as for my traits - I have always had small nuts , but my on the plus side my penis is 7-8" . Small Adams , alway was a big frame guy too . No hair loss .


#11

Well I ended up screwing my natural t test up from doing steroids when I was 18. Horrible idea, listened to the wrong people etc etc.. My natural total test used to be in the 700s which I think is pretty normal for an 18 year old but who knows, I guess it could have still been on the rise but ill never know because I took bad advice and did what I did. So now ive been on trt for a little over a year.

thanks for the compliments but I still feel very very small lol, long ways to go, im not shit yet.


#12

[/quote]

Well I ended up screwing my natural t test up from doing steroids when I was 18. Horrible idea, listened to the wrong people etc etc.. My natural total test used to be in the 700s which I think is pretty normal for an 18 year old but who knows, I guess it could have still been on the rise but ill never know because I took bad advice and did what I did. So now ive been on trt for a little over a year.

thanks for the compliments but I still feel very very small lol, long ways to go, im not shit yet.
[/quote]

Sorry to hear abou that bro, hope we will all find a way to balance our endocrine system... Best of luck in ur gains... Do u think ur DHEA levels r high because of trt or u r supplementing also with DHEA ?


#13

what is the best brand for transdermal magnesium oil (spray) ?
I stopped all suppl. activities till Monday, when I will have my complete blood and hormone tests done. I am resting for 10 days so that I could monitor my tests from "ground zero"... Then I will closely monitor tests... I have insurence till New Year so I will try to have couple of them untill then.
All test results and my conclusions I will be posting here or on another thread..
Hope I will be joined by others so that we could compare results and draw conclusions together...


#14

Since you are still young, have you given restart therapy a fair trial?


#15

Thanks for the suggestion but where I want to go with this restarting is not really an option.

And as far as the dheas goes, I don't supplement it, i'm not sure if my trt is why its in the high range but I was under the impression that trt will or possibly lower dheas? Or is that incorrect


#16

Where do you want to go with this? :slight_smile:


#17

I use ancient minerals


#18

As far as I can, no limits, but of course health is a factor to an extent