Tesla Motors

Off Topic
21

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Anonymity wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
Stock topics pop up on here from time to time and they usually don’t hold much interest. This one probably won’t fair much better but I think Tesla does deserve some discussion. I can see this company not only eclipsing the success of companies like Apple and Microsoft but also leading the country into a new wave of prosperity.
[/quote]

That is a stretch if I have ever heard of one.

Consider that Ford has 1/8th the market cap of apple.

Anyways, the real issue, as I was reading in JPMs monthly investors newsletter, is that the carbon footprint of a telsa is about the equivalent of a honda civic. Once people realize that the novelty of buying an “Electric car” will die off.

http://news.yahoo.com/teslas-carbon-footprint-no-better-183047337.html[/quote]

People don’t drive Tesla’s for the carbon footprint. They drive them because they think the cars are cool and they think the cars will make them look cool.

When the affordable models hit the mass market people will buy them because they are 1/5 the cost to ‘refuel’ and because they want the Tesla lifestyle. Remember, refueling a Tesla will mean shopping Oberon Designs while sipping a Latte not sucking in gas fumes while handling a greasy pump.
[/quote]

Yeah, but will the charging stations sell that guarana and ginseng-infused coffee that’s all the rage at the gas stations these days? That shit has me completely hooked. It gets right on top of me, and fast![/quote]

If Starbucks is selling it then yes. I, like you, am totally down with a Tesla-Starbucks partnership.

I’m coming around on the driverless idea too btw.[/quote]

I was thinking about the driverless thing earlier today and it occurred to me that there really isn’t any reason to be able to buy one car in the future that is both driverless and drivable. Why not have the option of doing either with the same vehicle? That would probably be enough to convince all but the absolute most die-hard “traditional” car enthusiasts to take the plunge and get one once they’re readily available.

I am also now the proud owner of 5k in Tesla stock as of today. The price dropped all the way to $88 per share this morning and I managed to get in on it at an even $90 per share. I’ve owned stock in Starbucks for several years now.

Yeah, the Tesla-Starbucks partnership could really be something. What’s the maximum distance you can go on one charge? About 200 miles? Well, chances are if you’re driving so far that you need a charge before you continue on your way, you’re probably on some sort of long trip and coffee might hit the spot. And since Tesla’s supercharging stations are free to Model S owners, why not try to mitigate that a little bit and make some money off the whole thing? Plus, Starbucks is doing extremely well right now. Why? Simple, because a shitload of people go there. A partnership would be a great thing for both companies.

You could have some coffee, a snack, read the NY Times, use the free wi-fi to check traffic conditions for the commute home or the next leg of the trip and take a piss all at the same stop. And like you said, you’ll be doing so at a nice, clean, well-lit place.

Shit, this thing could really put the good old-fashioned American road trip back in style. Maybe Tesla should look into producing limited amounts of electric RVs.

22

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
This is all nonsense, Tesla is just a leach off the bullshit central planning that stifles actual competition in the car market to make vehicles more cost efficiently(including fueling cost).
They will fade and die when this type of central planning collapses at the federal level.[/quote]

Who are you, another HoustonGuy reincarnation?

23

Quickly looking at this stock a few things I would point out to you

Dilution has occurred within the past 12 months (possibly more than once but not sure as I have not dug into 10k/10q reports)
Liabilities have increased each year since 2009
Free cash flow is negative

Obviously with this being a new venture in regards to a technology platform Tesla will have to continue raising money either via a manner of borrowing(debt) or dilution of the stock. The problem I see is a negative cash flow while wanting to build out all of these expensive charging stations. It may be possible but do some reading into how they plan to obtain cash which might be explained briefly in a 10-k report. They may have government grants or something but do research and find out.

I briefly looked at Balance Sheet, Cash Flow, & Income Statement
Search seekingalpha for some TSLA articles, they might have some insight you will want to dig into

24

[quote]xcintrik wrote:
Quickly looking at this stock a few things I would point out to you

Dilution has occurred within the past 12 months (possibly more than once but not sure as I have not dug into 10k/10q reports)
Liabilities have increased each year since 2009
Free cash flow is negative

Obviously with this being a new venture in regards to a technology platform Tesla will have to continue raising money either via a manner of borrowing(debt) or dilution of the stock. The problem I see is a negative cash flow while wanting to build out all of these expensive charging stations. It may be possible but do some reading into how they plan to obtain cash which might be explained briefly in a 10-k report. They may have government grants or something but do research and find out.

I briefly looked at Balance Sheet, Cash Flow, & Income Statement
Search seekingalpha for some TSLA articles, they might have some insight you will want to dig into
[/quote]

I thought about all of that stuff, but I said fuck it and took the plunge anyways. I’m in it for the long haul. Well, at least for the next several years. I was particularly enticed by their expected 25% gross margin, which dwarfs that of Ford or GM at 11% and 6%, respectively.

25

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
This is all nonsense, Tesla is just a leach off the bullshit central planning that stifles actual competition in the car market to make vehicles more cost efficiently(including fueling cost).
They will fade and die when this type of central planning collapses at the federal level.[/quote]

We will see. I don’t follow politics much and have no idea when the fuel efficiency incentives might be pulled, but my impression is it won’t be for a long time. A long time leaves plenty of time for Tesla to achieve independent profitability. Keep in mind, when they get truly good at making electric cars it won’t be hard to be more profitable (even without incentives) than Ford, GM or Chrysler. Those companies flat out suck. They have terrible union cultures that stifle the success of these companies.

I think Tesla has recognized that the time is right and they are seizing the moment with their aggressive roll out plan of charging stations that will give them THE charging infrastructure. If they succeed they could be Ford, GM AND EXXON MOBILE all in one.

I think they will succeed if the economy stays strong enough and if their stock price stays high enough to fund the buildout. I’ve made an 8700 dollar bet on it and plan to add more.

26

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
This is all nonsense, Tesla is just a leach off the bullshit central planning that stifles actual competition in the car market to make vehicles more cost efficiently(including fueling cost).
They will fade and die when this type of central planning collapses at the federal level.[/quote]

We will see. I don’t follow politics much and have no idea when the fuel efficiency incentives might be pulled, but my impression is it won’t be for a long time. A long time leaves plenty of time for Tesla to achieve independent profitability. Keep in mind, when they get truly good at making electric cars it won’t be hard to be more profitable (even without incentives) than Ford, GM or Chrysler. Those companies flat out suck. They have terrible union cultures that stifle the success of these companies.

I think Tesla has recognized that the time is right and they are seizing the moment with their aggressive roll out plan of charging stations that will give them THE charging infrastructure. If they succeed they could be Ford, GM AND EXXON MOBILE all in one.

I think they will succeed if the economy stays strong enough and if their stock price stays high enough to fund the buildout. I’ve made an 8700 dollar bet on it and plan to add more.[/quote]

You bought stock in them too, eh? Good for you! Internet high-five! Here’s to our future prosperity!

27

[quote]xcintrik wrote:
Quickly looking at this stock a few things I would point out to you

Dilution has occurred within the past 12 months (possibly more than once but not sure as I have not dug into 10k/10q reports)
Liabilities have increased each year since 2009
Free cash flow is negative

Obviously with this being a new venture in regards to a technology platform Tesla will have to continue raising money either via a manner of borrowing(debt) or dilution of the stock. The problem I see is a negative cash flow while wanting to build out all of these expensive charging stations. It may be possible but do some reading into how they plan to obtain cash which might be explained briefly in a 10-k report. They may have government grants or something but do research and find out.

I briefly looked at Balance Sheet, Cash Flow, & Income Statement
Search seekingalpha for some TSLA articles, they might have some insight you will want to dig into
[/quote]

I agree the buildout will be expensive and they will massively dilute the shares with more offerings. However, if you believe the cash received for the future offerings will be put to good use (seizing the charging infrastructure) then it’s worth it.

28

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Anonymity wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
Stock topics pop up on here from time to time and they usually don’t hold much interest. This one probably won’t fair much better but I think Tesla does deserve some discussion. I can see this company not only eclipsing the success of companies like Apple and Microsoft but also leading the country into a new wave of prosperity.
[/quote]

That is a stretch if I have ever heard of one.

Consider that Ford has 1/8th the market cap of apple.

Anyways, the real issue, as I was reading in JPMs monthly investors newsletter, is that the carbon footprint of a telsa is about the equivalent of a honda civic. Once people realize that the novelty of buying an “Electric car” will die off.

http://news.yahoo.com/teslas-carbon-footprint-no-better-183047337.html[/quote]

People don’t drive Tesla’s for the carbon footprint. They drive them because they think the cars are cool and they think the cars will make them look cool.

When the affordable models hit the mass market people will buy them because they are 1/5 the cost to ‘refuel’ and because they want the Tesla lifestyle. Remember, refueling a Tesla will mean shopping Oberon Designs while sipping a Latte not sucking in gas fumes while handling a greasy pump.
[/quote]

Yeah, but will the charging stations sell that guarana and ginseng-infused coffee that’s all the rage at the gas stations these days? That shit has me completely hooked. It gets right on top of me, and fast![/quote]

If Starbucks is selling it then yes. I, like you, am totally down with a Tesla-Starbucks partnership.

I’m coming around on the driverless idea too btw.[/quote]

I was thinking about the driverless thing earlier today and it occurred to me that there really isn’t any reason to be able to buy one car in the future that is both driverless and drivable. Why not have the option of doing either with the same vehicle? That would probably be enough to convince all but the absolute most die-hard “traditional” car enthusiasts to take the plunge and get one once they’re readily available.

I am also now the proud owner of 5k in Tesla stock as of today. The price dropped all the way to $88 per share this morning and I managed to get in on it at an even $90 per share. I’ve owned stock in Starbucks for several years now.

Yeah, the Tesla-Starbucks partnership could really be something. What’s the maximum distance you can go on one charge? About 200 miles? Well, chances are if you’re driving so far that you need a charge before you continue on your way, you’re probably on some sort of long trip and coffee might hit the spot. And since Tesla’s supercharging stations are free to Model S owners, why not try to mitigate that a little bit and make some money off the whole thing? Plus, Starbucks is doing extremely well right now. Why? Simple, because a shitload of people go there. A partnership would be a great thing for both companies.

You could have some coffee, a snack, read the NY Times, use the free wi-fi to check traffic conditions for the commute home or the next leg of the trip and take a piss all at the same stop. And like you said, you’ll be doing so at a nice, clean, well-lit place.

Shit, this thing could really put the good old-fashioned American road trip back in style. Maybe Tesla should look into producing limited amounts of electric RVs. [/quote]

Yeah, it would have to be the humans option to drive or not to drive. If I’m on a long trip I’m going batshit crazy if I’m not driving. On the other hand if I had the commute I used to have when I lived in LA and the job I have now, having 4o minutes every morning and 50 minutes every afternoon to make calls and answer emails would be a godsend.

29

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
This is all nonsense, Tesla is just a leach off the bullshit central planning that stifles actual competition in the car market to make vehicles more cost efficiently(including fueling cost).
They will fade and die when this type of central planning collapses at the federal level.[/quote]

We will see. I don’t follow politics much and have no idea when the fuel efficiency incentives might be pulled, but my impression is it won’t be for a long time. A long time leaves plenty of time for Tesla to achieve independent profitability. Keep in mind, when they get truly good at making electric cars it won’t be hard to be more profitable (even without incentives) than Ford, GM or Chrysler. Those companies flat out suck. They have terrible union cultures that stifle the success of these companies.

I think Tesla has recognized that the time is right and they are seizing the moment with their aggressive roll out plan of charging stations that will give them THE charging infrastructure. If they succeed they could be Ford, GM AND EXXON MOBILE all in one.

I think they will succeed if the economy stays strong enough and if their stock price stays high enough to fund the buildout. I’ve made an 8700 dollar bet on it and plan to add more.[/quote]

You bought stock in them too, eh? Good for you! Internet high-five! Here’s to our future prosperity![/quote]

Coop, I was watching the stock when it was bouncing between 25 and 30. When it broke out to 45 then settled down to just over 40 I said to my coworker “we’re supposed to buy the breakout” but I didn’t pull the trigger. I finally got in on the next breakout at 87 and I’m happy it’s stayed above that since, but damn, I’d be a whole lot more comfortable if I had only invested 4200 or, better yet, 2800.

I follow technicals and the price could easily fall to 60 without just cause for concern. That’s a lot of value to lose without being concerned. Sorry for being a kill-joy.

30

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
This is all nonsense, Tesla is just a leach off the bullshit central planning that stifles actual competition in the car market to make vehicles more cost efficiently(including fueling cost).
They will fade and die when this type of central planning collapses at the federal level.[/quote]

We will see. I don’t follow politics much and have no idea when the fuel efficiency incentives might be pulled, but my impression is it won’t be for a long time. A long time leaves plenty of time for Tesla to achieve independent profitability. Keep in mind, when they get truly good at making electric cars it won’t be hard to be more profitable (even without incentives) than Ford, GM or Chrysler. Those companies flat out suck. They have terrible union cultures that stifle the success of these companies.

I think Tesla has recognized that the time is right and they are seizing the moment with their aggressive roll out plan of charging stations that will give them THE charging infrastructure. If they succeed they could be Ford, GM AND EXXON MOBILE all in one.

I think they will succeed if the economy stays strong enough and if their stock price stays high enough to fund the buildout. I’ve made an 8700 dollar bet on it and plan to add more.[/quote]

You bought stock in them too, eh? Good for you! Internet high-five! Here’s to our future prosperity![/quote]

Coop, I was watching the stock when it was bouncing between 25 and 30. When it broke out to 45 then settled down to just over 40 I said to my coworker “we’re supposed to buy the breakout” but I didn’t pull the trigger. I finally got in on the next breakout at 87 and I’m happy it’s stayed above that since, but damn, I’d be a whole lot more comfortable if I had only invested 4200 or, better yet, 2800.

I follow technicals and the price could easily fall to 60 without just cause for concern. That’s a lot of value to lose without being concerned. Sorry for being a kill-joy.[/quote]

Well, buying stocks in something new like this is sort of like gambling under the assumption that you’re going to lose your money. WIth that sort of mindset you never get more money than you can afford to lose into the game.

My only real concern is that the cat is now out of the bag and companies like Mercedes and GM and Ford are going to start pumping tons of money into developing their own competitive electric cars. And once they get that ball rolling they might end up swallowing Tesla whole. I mean, Mercedes invented the car back in the 1880’s. They know the automobile industry inside and out, they have the workforce, the distributors, the cash and the experience to make something like that happen.

The thing about the Tesla that has really put it far ahead of other electric cars is the styling and the battery life. All the other electric cars out there look like shit. Us Americans like our cars to look stylish. The most beautiful automobiles on the road today and in years past have pretty much always been American, or Italian, and not these little Japanese piles of shit or anything from Germany. The BMW has looked like the same bland pile of shit for 40 years now. Tesla came in and put out something that held a much longer charge than their competitors and they did so in a car that looks really phenomenal on the road. The Model X is going to have gull-wing doors. Gull-wing doors on a fucking SUV!

I also think that another little problem that Tesla could solve is the charging thing. One of the drawbacks to the charging stations is the time spent there. Sure, if you HAVE to be there for 20-30 minutes to fully charge your car, it would be nice if they had some comfortable amenities there and all that. But really, who says you HAVE to be there for 20-30 minutes? I hate going to the gas station because I’m impatient more than anything to do with the environment of them. And it only takes 5 minutes to fuel up there. I think a better alternative might be to simply put a small little diesel generator, maybe 5 gallons, so that electricity can be generated as you’re driving and you can get another 50-60 miles out of the thing.

We’ll see what happens. They’re poised to start pumping out tens of thousands of these cars in the next year or so, rather than the 2000 they’ve got out there now. Once they start inundating the electric car market in such a manner I expect their stock to steadily increase well beyond the price I bought it at. I just pray they get at least to 20K cars a year before Mercedes or Ford or GM get their act together and take over the electric car market. The writing is certainly on the wall for those companies, and they know how to read.

31

It would be interesting if they offered a quantity of shares in the company upon purchase of the vehicle. That would commit people to being fully invested in the company, not just as a car owner but as a share holder. Counting a dividend against cost of operation would make it the least costly car in the universe. Almost like getting paid to drive one.

Probably not realistic, just a thought.

32

[quote]on edge wrote:

When the affordable models hit the mass market people will buy them because they are 1/5 the cost to ‘refuel’ and because they want the Tesla lifestyle. Remember, refueling a Tesla will mean shopping Oberon Designs while sipping a Latte not sucking in gas fumes while handling a greasy pump.
[/quote]

Refueling a Tesla takes 17 hours. That’s a shitload of lattes.

Tesla is the “beanie babies” of the new-age hyper hip crowd.

33

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

When the affordable models hit the mass market people will buy them because they are 1/5 the cost to ‘refuel’ and because they want the Tesla lifestyle. Remember, refueling a Tesla will mean shopping Oberon Designs while sipping a Latte not sucking in gas fumes while handling a greasy pump.
[/quote]

Refueling a Tesla takes 17 hours. That’s a shitload of lattes.

Tesla is the “beanie babies” of the new-age hyper hip crowd.
[/quote]

The Tesla supercharging stations they already have in place and are planning to build hundreds more of charge the Model S in about 40 minutes. That’s from completely dead to completely charged. And that’s assuming the current technology regarding these supercharging stations remains the same, which it won’t. Tesla has already announced that they are developing technology that will completely recharge the battery from dead to fully charged in 20 minutes and plan on having it available in their supercharging stations by the end of the summer.

34

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

When the affordable models hit the mass market people will buy them because they are 1/5 the cost to ‘refuel’ and because they want the Tesla lifestyle. Remember, refueling a Tesla will mean shopping Oberon Designs while sipping a Latte not sucking in gas fumes while handling a greasy pump.
[/quote]

Refueling a Tesla takes 17 hours. That’s a shitload of lattes.

Tesla is the “beanie babies” of the new-age hyper hip crowd.
[/quote]

Screw Tesla. Ill stick with ze Germans and burn some fossil fuel along with electricity with this 918 hybrid.

35

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Anonymity wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
Stock topics pop up on here from time to time and they usually don’t hold much interest. This one probably won’t fair much better but I think Tesla does deserve some discussion. I can see this company not only eclipsing the success of companies like Apple and Microsoft but also leading the country into a new wave of prosperity.
[/quote]

That is a stretch if I have ever heard of one.

Consider that Ford has 1/8th the market cap of apple.

Anyways, the real issue, as I was reading in JPMs monthly investors newsletter, is that the carbon footprint of a telsa is about the equivalent of a honda civic. Once people realize that the novelty of buying an “Electric car” will die off.

http://news.yahoo.com/teslas-carbon-footprint-no-better-183047337.html[/quote]

People don’t drive Tesla’s for the carbon footprint. They drive them because they think the cars are cool and they think the cars will make them look cool.

When the affordable models hit the mass market people will buy them because they are 1/5 the cost to ‘refuel’ and because they want the Tesla lifestyle. Remember, refueling a Tesla will mean shopping Oberon Designs while sipping a Latte not sucking in gas fumes while handling a greasy pump.
[/quote]

Okay, that’s fair enough. But how long will that last when they get sufficient market penetration?

The club gets less cool when everyone is in it.

I do like Tesla, I just don’t see the auto-industry consolidating around 1 clear-cut winner.

36


fact~

37

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

When the affordable models hit the mass market people will buy them because they are 1/5 the cost to ‘refuel’ and because they want the Tesla lifestyle. Remember, refueling a Tesla will mean shopping Oberon Designs while sipping a Latte not sucking in gas fumes while handling a greasy pump.
[/quote]

Refueling a Tesla takes 17 hours. That’s a shitload of lattes.

Tesla is the “beanie babies” of the new-age hyper hip crowd.
[/quote]

The Tesla supercharging stations they already have in place and are planning to build hundreds more of charge the Model S in about 40 minutes. That’s from completely dead to completely charged. And that’s assuming the current technology regarding these supercharging stations remains the same, which it won’t. Tesla has already announced that they are developing technology that will completely recharge the battery from dead to fully charged in 20 minutes and plan on having it available in their supercharging stations by the end of the summer.[/quote]

20 minutes. Woo fucking hoo. So every 200 miles or less, I have to stop for 20 minutes, and that’s only if I happen to be near a supercharger - else, it’s 17 hours.

Does Tesla give you the pom-poms when you buy the dress?

38

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

When the affordable models hit the mass market people will buy them because they are 1/5 the cost to ‘refuel’ and because they want the Tesla lifestyle. Remember, refueling a Tesla will mean shopping Oberon Designs while sipping a Latte not sucking in gas fumes while handling a greasy pump.
[/quote]

Refueling a Tesla takes 17 hours. That’s a shitload of lattes.

Tesla is the “beanie babies” of the new-age hyper hip crowd.
[/quote]

The Tesla supercharging stations they already have in place and are planning to build hundreds more of charge the Model S in about 40 minutes. That’s from completely dead to completely charged. And that’s assuming the current technology regarding these supercharging stations remains the same, which it won’t. Tesla has already announced that they are developing technology that will completely recharge the battery from dead to fully charged in 20 minutes and plan on having it available in their supercharging stations by the end of the summer.[/quote]

20 minutes. Woo fucking hoo. So every 200 miles or less, I have to stop for 20 minutes, and that’s only if I happen to be near a supercharger - else, it’s 17 hours.

Does Tesla give you the pom-poms when you buy the dress? [/quote]

The charging thing really isn’t that big of a deal. How often do you drive for more than 200 miles at a time? Rarely, if ever. 99% of people never drive like that more than once in a blue moon. If you simply plug the car in every time you pull into your garage you can almost completely eliminate the possibility that you run out of battery life while you’re driving. And in the rare cases that you DO need a charge, Tesla is taking care of that right now.

So on the off-chance that you’ve driven 200 miles that day without having a chance to charge up, you simply pull into a charging station, relax, have a cup of coffee, peruse the Internet for a little while, maybe go take a shit in a nice, clean bathroom and then you get back in your car and continue on your way. People rarely ever travel 200 miles or more between returns to their home. If you weren’t in such a hurry to insult people all the time and you didn’t take your role as Internet douchebag so seriously you might have thought through basic things like this before posting about it and making yourself look like an ill-informed jackass.

39

You will only drive 200 miles if you go on a road trip. And the cost comparison of fuel is dramatic. The lower capacity battery holds 60 kWh. Where I live, it costs about $0.09/kWh. That’s $5.40 for 200 miles, or ~37.04 miles per dollar. Compare this to a car that get 30 miles to the gallon, with the cost of gas at $4.00/gal. That ends up about 7.5 miles per dollar. Significant fuel cost reduction (about 5 times less).

40

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
You will only drive 200 miles if you go on a road trip. And the cost comparison of fuel is dramatic. The lower capacity battery holds 60 kWh. Where I live, it costs about $0.09/kWh. That’s $5.40 for 200 miles, or ~37.04 miles per dollar. Compare this to a car that get 30 miles to the gallon, with the cost of gas at $4.00/gal. That ends up about 7.5 miles per dollar. Significant fuel cost reduction (about 5 times less). [/quote]

With savings like that and an expansive network of supercharging stations popping up all over the country, I could easily see the road trip making a comeback. Imagine if Jack Kerouac were alive today and wrote The Road while traveling around in a Tesla.

Of course, there is a cost that has gone unmentioned. The increase in electric bills from charging your car each night. The charger will run on either 110 or 220, so for the houses that don’t already have 220 wired in, the charging time takes longer. I think it’s about 30 miles per hour of charging time on a 50A circuit, and about 18 miles per hour of charging on a 30A circuit. I don’t know how much that could increase the power bill, but it IS an added cost. I can’t imagine it’s enough to put a very significant dent in the fuel savings though.