T Nation

Terrorist Act?


#1

I know most of you don't live on the border or anywhere near it and hear very little about incidents. There is a very disturbing rise in violence that is going on. A week and a half ago a U.S. Border Patrol agent while on duty was ambushed by multiple gunmen from Mexico on U.S. soil (mountain area of San Diego).

He was shot 6 times and killed. The hunt is still ongoing for the killer(s). The was a pre-planned setup baiting the agent into the area of the ambush. Drug cartels in Mexico have put "hits" out for Federal Agents all the time. If you go to MSNBC they have videos of vehicles being pursued by local law enforcemnt that are loaded with drugs from Mexico.

These vehicles turn around and haul tail back to the border with no regard toward public safety. A U.S. Border Patrol Agent in Arizona was killed last year by one of these vehicles while trying to setup spike strips. The vehicle purposely swerved and struck the agent.

The vehicle was then dumped and the "bandits" ran back into Mexico. They were eventually captured and extradited back to the U.S. What is seen in these videos is these vehicles driving back to the border and crashing into the Rio Grande River which seperates the U.S. and Mexico.

Other members of the drug running "team" are radioed to the location (from Mexico) of the vehicle in the river. They then cross with rafts/boats and gather the dope and passengers of the vehicle and take them back to the safety of Mexico.

Many times with armed men hiding in the bushes (in Mexico) providing "cover" fire upon local and federal law enforcement chasing these vehicles. This kind of violence against our law enforcement protecting our borders is growing at an alarming rate.

My question is this? Why aren't these drug cartels considered terrorist orginizations committing acts of war against the U.S. with this violence? Why are they not seeked out and destroyed in Mexico as an extreme danger to the U.S.? It will not be long before this violence spills over to innocent civilians caught in the "crossfire."

These are thugs from another country coming to the U.S. and killing federal officers on U.S soil. Why is this tolerated? Government officals of Mexico are heavily involved with these cartels with protecting them and turning their head the other way for large kickbacks. It is about time our government put the screws to Mexico.

It's time for them to step up and investigate the Mexican Govt. and their involvement related to drug cartels. It's time to hold them responsible. Lets call it what it is. They are terrorist groups sponsored by a nation's govt. What other country in this world would tolerate such actions? Not only is the violence increasing, most of the drugs flow right through Mexico. Again, I ask why is this tolerated??

I would like to hear other opinions on this.


#2

They’re not terrorist organizations. They’re businesses that inevitably develop in response to drug prohibition. They are not motivated by any grand ideologies, but by money.


#3

[quote]Unaware wrote:
They’re not terrorist organizations. They’re businesses that inevitably develop in response to drug prohibition. They are not motivated by any grand ideologies, but by money. [/quote]

You think we should differentiate the two because of motive?

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines terrorism as: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
and
Narco-terrorism: terrorism financed by profits from illegal drug trafficking


#4

Because the government only talks about strengthening our borders and doesn’t do shit to back it up. We have no border security or enforcement, unlike other countries that arrest you first and then sort shit out.


#5

[quote]BlacknGold wrote:
Unaware wrote:
They’re not terrorist organizations. They’re businesses that inevitably develop in response to drug prohibition. They are not motivated by any grand ideologies, but by money.

You think we should differentiate the two because of motive?

[/quote]

Yes, we should.

Or else governments can call every reaction to a problem they have created “terrorism” and literally get away with murder.


#6

[quote]BlacknGold wrote:
Unaware wrote:
They’re not terrorist organizations. They’re businesses that inevitably develop in response to drug prohibition. They are not motivated by any grand ideologies, but by money.

You think we should differentiate the two because of motive?

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines terrorism as: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
and
Narco-terrorism: terrorism financed by profits from illegal drug trafficking
[/quote]

Its not differentiating them on the basis of motive, its differentiating them on the basis of actions.

Terrorist do things for ideological reasons. Mexican drug cartels LOVE US. We make them rich, they aren’t bombing shit or killing people mindlessly. They have no interest in blowing up skyscrapers or releasing chemical weapons, they only want MONEY. Its only when some unfortunate person gets in the way of their money people get hurt. They’re criminal organizations, but they’re not terrorists.


#7

[quote]Unaware wrote:
BlacknGold wrote:
Unaware wrote:
They’re not terrorist organizations. They’re businesses that inevitably develop in response to drug prohibition. They are not motivated by any grand ideologies, but by money.

You think we should differentiate the two because of motive?

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines terrorism as: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
and
Narco-terrorism: terrorism financed by profits from illegal drug trafficking

Its not differentiating them on the basis of motive, its differentiating them on the basis of actions.

Terrorist do things for ideological reasons. Mexican drug cartels LOVE US. We make them rich, they aren’t bombing shit or killing people mindlessly. They have no interest in blowing up skyscrapers or releasing chemical weapons, they only want MONEY. Its only when some unfortunate person gets in the way of their money people get hurt. They’re criminal organizations, but they’re not terrorists.

[/quote]

There is a rumor that Osama Bin Laden wanted to buy 1 ton of coke, poison it and ship it to the US.

The Columbians he approached were very much against that.

Bad business.


#8

[quote]BlacknGold wrote:
Unaware wrote:
They’re not terrorist organizations. They’re businesses that inevitably develop in response to drug prohibition. They are not motivated by any grand ideologies, but by money.

You think we should differentiate the two because of motive?

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines terrorism as: the systematic use of terror especially
[/quote]

Would knocking peoples doors down and shooting them if they resist or killing their dogs more or less arbitrarily qualify?

How about “shock and awe”?


#9

[quote]orion wrote:
BlacknGold wrote:
Unaware wrote:
They’re not terrorist organizations. They’re businesses that inevitably develop in response to drug prohibition. They are not motivated by any grand ideologies, but by money.

You think we should differentiate the two because of motive?

Yes, we should.

Or else governments can call every reaction to a problem they have created “terrorism” and literally get away with murder.
[/quote]

Every terrorist orginization that has ever attacked us believes we created the problem to begin with. In my opinion, this violence is an act of war against the U.S. when they cross into our soil and kill our uniformed law enforcement or shoot at them from Mexico. What do you think their goal was in planning out and killing this agent senselessly? Terrorism? It certainly meets the definition.


#10

[quote]Unaware wrote:
BlacknGold wrote:
Unaware wrote:
They’re not terrorist organizations. They’re businesses that inevitably develop in response to drug prohibition. They are not motivated by any grand ideologies, but by money.

You think we should differentiate the two because of motive?

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines terrorism as: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
and
Narco-terrorism: terrorism financed by profits from illegal drug trafficking

Its not differentiating them on the basis of motive, its differentiating them on the basis of actions.

Terrorist do things for ideological reasons. Mexican drug cartels LOVE US. We make them rich, they aren’t bombing shit or killing people mindlessly. They have no interest in blowing up skyscrapers or releasing chemical weapons, they only want MONEY. Its only when some unfortunate person gets in the way of their money people get hurt. They’re criminal organizations, but they’re not terrorists.
[/quote]

You contradicted yourself. In one sentence you say they aren’t killing people mindlessly (yes they are. There have been over a thousand people murdered already just in the city of Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico.) But toward the end you say it’s only when someone gets in the way people get hurt. This was a pre-planned orginized attack. It wasn’t a random guy that got in their way. There have been pre-planned murders and attacks on thouands of people in Mexico and U.S. just in this year so far. My point being it is here NOW on our soil against the men and women protecting our borders. When does somebody supposed to care and say something? After 5 more get killed? 10 more agents get killed? When?


#11

[quote]orion wrote:
BlacknGold wrote:
Unaware wrote:
They’re not terrorist organizations. They’re businesses that inevitably develop in response to drug prohibition. They are not motivated by any grand ideologies, but by money.

You think we should differentiate the two because of motive?

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines terrorism as: the systematic use of terror especially

Would knocking peoples doors down and shooting them if they resist or killing their dogs more or less arbitrarily qualify?

How about “shock and awe”?
[/quote]

I think every one of those lush big mansions that these leaders of the cartles in Mexico should be nothing more than a bomb crater after something like this happends. The govt. of Mexico needs to be pressured into overhauling itself and cracking down on themselves and these cartels. Instead we have members of thir police forces running into America scared, shot, or killed. We have their military providing protection for drug loads that cross into America. We have their military crossing into the U.S. and shooting at agents while protecting these drug loads. Should we wait until their is a shootout the size of the one in L.A. years back right in the middle of a town on the border? One of these vehicles crashing into dozens of kids waiting for the school bus?


#12

[quote]BlacknGold wrote:
Unaware wrote:
BlacknGold wrote:
Unaware wrote:
They’re not terrorist organizations. They’re businesses that inevitably develop in response to drug prohibition. They are not motivated by any grand ideologies, but by money.

You think we should differentiate the two because of motive?

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines terrorism as: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
and
Narco-terrorism: terrorism financed by profits from illegal drug trafficking

Its not differentiating them on the basis of motive, its differentiating them on the basis of actions.

Terrorist do things for ideological reasons. Mexican drug cartels LOVE US. We make them rich, they aren’t bombing shit or killing people mindlessly. They have no interest in blowing up skyscrapers or releasing chemical weapons, they only want MONEY. Its only when some unfortunate person gets in the way of their money people get hurt. They’re criminal organizations, but they’re not terrorists.

You contradicted yourself. In one sentence you say they aren’t killing people mindlessly (yes they are. There have been over a thousand people murdered already just in the city of Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico.) But toward the end you say it’s only when someone gets in the way people get hurt. This was a pre-planned orginized attack. It wasn’t a random guy that got in their way. There have been pre-planned murders and attacks on thouands of people in Mexico and U.S. just in this year so far. My point being it is here NOW on our soil against the men and women protecting our borders. When does somebody supposed to care and say something? After 5 more get killed? 10 more agents get killed? When?
[/quote]

I didn’t contradict myself, as far as I am concerned, perhaps I did not state what I meant clearly.

There is no evidence I know off that drug cartels are involved in indiscriminate killing of civilians. Why would they? Innocent civilians are their customers. Now they may show indifference to the lives of innocent people, but they do not activley try to kill them. Do you think drug lords tell their lackeys to head toward the border and kill as many people as you can? It’s ridiculous to insinuate that.

Difference between a drug cartel and a terrorist organizations is that the expressed goal of terrorists is to kill civilians for the expressed purposed of creating a state of terror. For drug cartels it is just a means to an end, namely to protect their profit.


#13

[quote]BlacknGold wrote:
orion wrote:
BlacknGold wrote:
Unaware wrote:
They’re not terrorist organizations. They’re businesses that inevitably develop in response to drug prohibition. They are not motivated by any grand ideologies, but by money.

You think we should differentiate the two because of motive?

Yes, we should.

Or else governments can call every reaction to a problem they have created “terrorism” and literally get away with murder.

Every terrorist orginization that has ever attacked us believes we created the problem to begin with. In my opinion, this violence is an act of war against the U.S. when they cross into our soil and kill our uniformed law enforcement or shoot at them from Mexico. What do you think their goal was in planning out and killing this agent senselessly? Terrorism? It certainly meets the definition.
[/quote]

To remove a business obstacle.

They might want to scare US federal agents but most definitely do not want to scare off their customers.

Also, they could not declare war if they wanted to, they are not a government.


#14

[quote]BlacknGold wrote:
orion wrote:
BlacknGold wrote:
Unaware wrote:
They’re not terrorist organizations. They’re businesses that inevitably develop in response to drug prohibition. They are not motivated by any grand ideologies, but by money.

You think we should differentiate the two because of motive?

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines terrorism as: the systematic use of terror especially

Would knocking peoples doors down and shooting them if they resist or killing their dogs more or less arbitrarily qualify?

How about “shock and awe”?

I think every one of those lush big mansions that these leaders of the cartles in Mexico should be nothing more than a bomb crater after something like this happends. The govt. of Mexico needs to be pressured into overhauling itself and cracking down on themselves and these cartels. Instead we have members of thir police forces running into America scared, shot, or killed. We have their military providing protection for drug loads that cross into America. We have their military crossing into the U.S. and shooting at agents while protecting these drug loads. Should we wait until their is a shootout the size of the one in L.A. years back right in the middle of a town on the border? One of these vehicles crashing into dozens of kids waiting for the school bus?
[/quote]

No, you should legalize drugs and finally remove the main source of their income.

Did you notice that there are no more “beer wars” in Chicago?

Unfortunately that would also remove the income of the 40 billion a year prohibition industry which is why it is unlikely to happen.