Terrorism's Apologists

Who cares how Islamic terrorists are created?

Perhaps if the free world took that view, and acted like it, we wouldnt have these problems.

If we(“we” meaning the free peoples of the world, not just the US) hunted these people like the dogs they are, jailed them, deported them and killed them, along with their supporters, at every turn, why would it be neccessary to “understand” how they are created? Jack the cost of doing business up for them so high, and it will stop. Maybe it is as simple as that. We won’t know until we reach the point where we actually fight this war properly.

On a related note, I can’t tell you how good it was to see a hard-faced British agent walking out of a subway with a submachinegun slung across his chest after some terrorist piece of shit was shot today. The past two weeks of apologies and tears coming from the government there was a disgrace.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
vroom,

Does this actually mean anything? Just curious… =-)[/quote]

Aw, that’s too bad. I’m disappointed Boston, I thought you were pretty smart.

It means sometimes sending in the troops is the right course of action, while at other times a more sophisticated approach may be called for.

Wasn’t that obvious?

[quote]vroom wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
vroom,

Does this actually mean anything? Just curious… =-)

Aw, that’s too bad. I’m disappointed Boston, I thought you were pretty smart.

It means sometimes sending in the troops is the right course of action, while at other times a more sophisticated approach may be called for.

Wasn’t that obvious?[/quote]

So basically your answer is no then.

That’s allright. I know what you were getting at, but saying “Sometimes it’s X, and sometimes it’s Y” doesn’t really make much of a point. It’s so obvious as to be beyond stating, unless it gets you to looking at which this situation is, and why.

Just a thought, a CIA paper describes the war in Iraq as a very powerful propaganda tool for Al-qaeda, hmmm, I wonder if it influenced the 4 suicide bombers in England?

They also say it is training a new batch of urban terrorists, much more deadly than those trained in the rural Afghanistan war.

I just can’t see how anyone could possibly find any link whatsoever to the war in Iraq to the London bombings! (sarcasm)

It doesn’t really fucking matter if there are apologists out there, but if you want to look at the situation with your fucking blinders on your going to get slapped on the side of head.

Boston,

With half the right wing nuts around here just itching to label me with some unsavory title, I have to be very clear about things at times… hence having to point out that military force is appropriate at times.

It isn’t as if I’m carrying on a private conversation and don’t have to worry about a verbal knife in the back while I’m talking to you.

biddave,

See JD430’s recent post.

Thanks,

JeffR

I have no idea what that post has for me, but everyone in this world except a few simplistic individuals cares greatly what created and continues to create our current batch of Islamic radicals. Thats the whole reason we’re in Iraq isn’t it? To create a democratic beacon of hope so as to drown out the voices of the Salafists? (Oh wait, no its because Saddam has WMD and is going to strike the US soon) The Bushies and the Neo-cons care, thousands of people reading up on the issue care(after 9/11 the inquisitive US citizens devoured books on the Middle East and Islam). So everyone except a bunch of xenophobic forum-toughguy jackasses seem to realize that there has to be carrot and stick. (Rumsfelds analogy not mine)

Last I read the guy killed in London had nothing to do with any bombings, but some rambo-loving fool here took great pride in seeing someone striding out of the place with a gun strapped across his chest. You don’t fuck with the police and if you do you pay, but why take pride in a life taken? How very Christian of you.

God why do I ever peruse this den of ignorance? I guess its called the Get a life forum for a reason.

Oh dear BB, feathers so ruffled by little George Galloway!

[quote]vroom wrote:
Boston,

With half the right wing nuts around here just itching to label me with some unsavory title, I have to be very clear about things at times… hence having to point out that military force is appropriate at times.

It isn’t as if I’m carrying on a private conversation and don’t have to worry about a verbal knife in the back while I’m talking to you.[/quote]

Damn it you Canadian liberal! Don’t you realise American military might is ALWAYS right. Thats why its mighty! Cause and effect is for physics alone, it doesn’t apply to American foreign policy. Don’t make me nuke you!

On what Big Dave56 wrote:

Where do you get the idea that there are a great many people in the world who care what created Islamic radicals? You toss out the “simplistic fool” label in the typical arrogant elite fashion, but what you’re saying does not resonate with a great many people.

Do you really care why Hitler hated the Jews? Does it really matter what drove the Nazis to throw 13 million people in ovens? I would love to see whiners like you try to explain how we should seek to understand their hatred of Jews and Christians. It is the same exact goddamn thing.

Maybe, just maybe, Islamic radicals are simply an uncivilized group of animals who need to be dragged kicking and screaming into modern civilization. Why is the concept that they are indoctinated thugs so hard for you to accept? It is guys like you who try to offer bullshit like “we robbed them of their oil” or “our presence in Arabia offends them” that are hampering our efforts to eliminate them.

Rambo-loving fool? You miss the point.
These are hard times and only hard men will save you. If that guy was completely innocent, then it is a tragedy he was shot. That is not what the police commisioner was saying the other day and that is what I had to go on. If he was a a terrorist in any capacity, that is more out of the way.

So keep sitting there and twidling your thumbs and agonizing over the irrational hatred a group of animals has for the West. Hopefully the voices of outrage at the innocent bodies piling up in the streets(Eygpt was the latest example last night) will drown out you clowns before it is too late.

The essence of the anti-war apologist argument:

“Just don’t provoke them, and they won’t hurt us”

This is simply untrue, as the islamofascists hate us for what we are, not for what we do. Did any of you anti-war guys read the article BB posted? Islamofascism is real, and we have to deal with it. You have exactly two choices:

Disable them or Join them.

That’s it, fellas. What I see on this forum a lot of the times is that most of us agree on the “disable them” part, we just disagree on how to go about doing it. Some of us (like myself) support direct hostile and deadly force against those who bring deadly force to bear against us. Some of us want to play a waiting game and wear them out by indirect and peaceful means (vroom, et al).

Do not make the mistake of thinking that we “create terrorism” by what we do. That was the point of the article above, and I think that some of y’all missed it.

JD:

You have no clue whatsoever, I do more quantifiable work every single day to support the military in its current endeavors in the Middle East, its my job and I have travelled to that part of the world extensively. (make no mistake, I do not risk my life or carry a weapon, also I have no part of policy or strategic planning, I am just a cog in the wheel)

You have no clue what the terms westernization and modernization even means to the East. You just say drag them out and kill them, its simplistic, it wont work we will not be safer and once again it goes against our Christian beliefs.

Do we care why Hilter killed 13 million Jews, gypsys, handicapped, communists, political dissidents, etc.? Fuck yes we do, why have countless books been written on the rise of the third Reich? Why are there museums, memorials and days of remembrance? So we understand it to keep it from ever happening again. Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it, you know?

So thump your chest and wave your flag, and if you really want to be Rambo go sign up at your nearest recruiter’s office. I’d love to see you over in the sand next time I go.

“Where do you get the idea that there are a great many people in the world who care what created Islamic radicals?” Because the Bush administration does, the Pentagon does, Rumsfeld does, I do, Tony Blair does, Bernard Lewis does, 140,000 troops in Iraq does, Karzai does, Musharaf does, Benzar Butros does, the whole civilized world does. If you don’t know where it comes from you won’t defeat it and your children will die.

“Disable them or join them.” Simplistic and unfortunate bullshit, fortunately only that mentality only exists in the ether.

dave,

Congratulations!!!

With your hand wringing, moaning, and lack of any alternatives you’ve been selected to join a select group.

lumpy, e-hater, dean, mark47, marm, and jealous canadian, please welcome your brother in moan, dave.

Maybe you can get together for a soy latte under dave’s tree to read (on recycled paper) jane fonda’s latest interview from ireland. I’ll even send some organic herbs for you to suck on.

Bush lied, Carthage died!!!

hillary forever!!!

JeffR

The mayor of London had it right.

If you don’t believe in “cause and effect”, Darwin will catch up with you. And if you don’t believe in Darwin, you’re already a dinosaur.

Some recreational reading.
rotten.com/library/conspiracy/al-qaeda-and-the-assassins/

I’ve said it elsewhere and I’ll say it again here.

Once somebody has been recruited by the islamofascists and is willing to commit acts of terror, there probably is no recourse except to fight them and kill them.

However, the military course of action, no matter how wonderful you think it is, does nothing to stop the recruitment of thousands more young men willing to die. Just as terror is ineffective in quelling our anger, killing islamofascists will be ineffective in stopping recruitment. Anger and hatred beget anger and hatred – it has been so since the beginning of time.

It is not being an apologist to want to stop muslim youth from being willing recruits into the islamofascist terror machine. If they aren’t recruited, they won’t be trying to bomb us. They won’t kill our citizens or our soldiers.

If you don’t care how and why they have come to hate us, if you don’t do anything to counter that viewpoint, then you can simply be assured that their will be ongoing conflict and death. Death to our own citizens, our own soldiers, their citizens and their islamofascist recruits.

You might notice that three of those groups do not deserve to face conflict and death. Sure, war is hell, but there is no point making sure that it continues endlessly, is there?

Open up your minds. Everything that you do, or that anyone does, is for a reason. People aren’t born into the world hating someone else… they learn it.

Again, as I’ve said before, it may be because their media is spreading lies and giving them falsehoods. It may be that their religious education has been coopted by terrorist groups that spread propaganda. Who knows exactly what it is.

However, wherever they learn their hatred, this is the point at which terrorism can truly be stopped. When people don’t learn hatred, when they aren’t lied to and convinced they can become martyrs, then they don’t decide to strap bombs to themselves and kill people.

Apologism and appeasement are if you accept blame for and try to give people things. This is not what I’m suggesting at all. I’m not saying we need to take “blame” and “give” terrorists anything and hope they will go away. If that is what you are reading, you have a comprehension problem.

Kill the people spreading propaganda. Fight those that have become islamofascists. Find ways to counter the lies and spread of hatred. At times this may mean taking a look at actions taken, at other times it may mean making it clear why actions are fair and appropriate. Maybe it means finding ways to force regimes to spread appropriate messages, remove certain types of teaching and to adopt certain behaviors.

Heck, if sold to the American populace accurately, you can even go to war with other regimes and replace them with democracies – as long as you give the public (through their representatives) the ability to vote on the issue directly. Scaring them and creating linkages that turn out to be untrue is not the way to go about it.

Personally, I am not against the use of force, but it must be targeted and approved for the purpose used. Also, and significantly, I believe the true causes of terrorism cannot be eliminated by attacking countries. Terrorists are just random members of the populace, they don’t wear uniforms and they aren’t readily identifiable.

You can’t watch everyone all the time on a worldwide basis. It isn’t feasible.

I give facts, albeit laced with derision, and all I get is soy latte inane pussy bullshit.

Where is your contribution to the world as it pertains to the subject matter? Have you enlisted, did you suggest you brother enlist, your sister your nephew? You sit behind you computer full of porn trojans, pop you zits and spout nonsense, and you haven’t even educated yourself beyond the news ticker on whatever bullshit tv news station that comes on before you sit down to watch the Gilmore girls.

If any one of you has read one book on modernization and the Arab world I will kiss you ass or whatever closet fantasy it is you forum tough guys wager over.

[quote]Big Dave56 wrote:
“Disable them or join them.” Simplistic and unfortunate bullshit, fortunately only that mentality only exists in the ether.[/quote]

Well Big Dave, if you’re so smart, then let us lesser people in on your specialized knowledge of option 3.

And yes, I’m holding my breath over here.

HINT: You’re going to have to find some way to peacefully co-exist with somebody who hates you and is willing to take action to kill you simply because you are an American.

BIGGER HINT: What did the victims of 9/11 do to the Islamofascists to make them crash airplanes into the WTC? Go to work? Raise and support a family? Pay their taxes? Shop at Wal-Mart? Cause and effect, man… you gotta come up with something feasible here, right? Or else you’re full of shit and Jeffy is right about you. That would be a shame.

I’m loath to open old cans of worms, but my curiosity has gotten the better of me. How do you guys feel about the comments by Falwell and Robertson after September 11?

Should their security details worry that RainJack will come gunning for these blame-shifting apologists, or are they in the clear?