Before kids, my wife once had a discussion with my sister in law about our nephews. My wife was telling Sister-in-law just to make one meal for the family and if the kids don’t like it, tuff. My sister in law said she can’t let her kids go to bed hungry and my wife explained it would only happen a time or two and the kids would learn to eat their dinner.
Fast forward to us having our own kids…
My wife cooks a different meal for everyone in the family every night.
[quote]on edge wrote:
Before kids, my wife once had a discussion with my sister in law about our nephews. My wife was telling Sister-in-law just to make one meal for the family and if the kids don’t like it, tuff. My sister in law said she can’t let her kids go to bed hungry and my wife explained it would only happen a time or two and the kids would learn to eat their dinner.
Fast forward to us having our own kids…
My wife cooks a different meal for everyone in the family every night.[/quote]
I did the same shit. lmao. Everyone has the best laid plans until they actually live it.
My boy would have starved to death. So we ended up cooking him something different, until like 9 or so and it was like “you don’t want what we make, here’s a pan, here’s the stove and clean up your dishes too.”
My daughter, on the other hand, will eat eventually.
[quote]TooHuman wrote:
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
[quote]TooHuman wrote:
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
I am 100% in the camp of mind your own business. Most of us do the best we can. Best is almost never good enough but you learn and hope to respond better next time. I do believe that you need to be a parent to truly understand what it means to parent. It’s like any other situation. You can make hypothetical responses to a number of imagined situations but until you actually live that moment, you can never truly know how you will act.[/quote]
Actually no, most mothers hit their kids reactively, regret it and then continue to escalate. this is a matter of FACT based on research:
This is precisely because they don’t work out the deep seated emotional turmoil within them and WAIT until they “actually live that moment”. If you don’t know whether you’ll smack your kid or remain non-violent when you’re overloaded with stress, YOU HAVE NOT PREPARED and that is NOT THE SAME as “doing the best we can”.
If you fail a test because you didn’t prepare or you fail to perform CPR correctly because you didn’t prepare or you fail to prepare in ANY other situation in life and someone gets hurt, The blame is SQUARELY on you.
ONLY parents get a blanket pass at failing to prepare and hurting their kids and THAT is total immoral bullshit.
[/quote]
Agree to disagree.
[/quote]
No the way this works in the real world is you have evidence and/or a rational counter-arguments or you’re wrong.
“agree to disagree” is what dishonest and immoral people use as a crutch when they have no relevant evidence.
Here’s another argument for you. You’re a bad person because you apologize for the lack of preparation of parents and subsequent violence against children.
[/quote]
My observation of the real world is that most honest and thoughtful people aren’t overburdened with the sense of knowing better than anyone else.
‘Agree to disagree’ is a polite way of disengaging with someone else who seems dogmatic and feels the need to convert. You will not change my world view. Neither will I change yours. We are, therefore left with ‘agree to disagree’.
TooHuman spotting nonsense about parenting again… Haven’t seen that before:
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
‘Agree to disagree’ is a polite way of disengaging with someone else who seems dogmatic and feels the need to convert. You will not change my world view. Neither will I change yours. We are, therefore left with ‘agree to disagree’.
[/quote]
You have no idea how delighted I am to see other people use this approach online.
Saves a LOT of pages of flamewars. Kudos.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
‘Agree to disagree’ is a polite way of disengaging with someone else who seems dogmatic and feels the need to convert. You will not change my world view. Neither will I change yours. We are, therefore left with ‘agree to disagree’.
[/quote]
You have no idea how delighted I am to see other people use this approach online.
Saves a LOT of pages of flamewars. Kudos.[/quote]
But will it work?? Guess we will have to see.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
‘Agree to disagree’ is a polite way of disengaging with someone else who seems dogmatic and feels the need to convert. You will not change my world view. Neither will I change yours. We are, therefore left with ‘agree to disagree’.
[/quote]
You have no idea how delighted I am to see other people use this approach online.
Saves a LOT of pages of flamewars. Kudos.[/quote]
But will it work?? Guess we will have to see.[/quote]
I imagine THEIR exchange is done, but that others will continue to have an argument with no possible end available.
As I’ve gotten older, I’ve learned that very few people engage in an argument with the hope that THEIR view gets changed. As such, I will typically at most offer 1 counter response, and if that is met with resistance agree to disagree and move on. I respect that people have formed their opinions through whatever means they chose, and that I simply don’t have the ability to change it.
[quote]orion wrote:
Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.
Proverbs 13:24 [/quote]
You agree with this biblical passage Orion? From what I remember,(I may be wrong) you’re no supporter of the initiation of force by the state.
It should be logically consistent that the appeal to authority when initiating force on a child is just as illogical and immoral, right?
[quote]on edge wrote:
Before kids, my wife once had a discussion with my sister in law about our nephews. My wife was telling Sister-in-law just to make one meal for the family and if the kids don’t like it, tuff. My sister in law said she can’t let her kids go to bed hungry and my wife explained it would only happen a time or two and the kids would learn to eat their dinner.
Fast forward to us having our own kids…
My wife cooks a different meal for everyone in the family every night.[/quote]
So you wife chose to treat your kids with kindness and respect their desires as human beings instead of using force, threats, and punishment.
This is all a fantastic sign of empathy as a mother that I wish more people would emulate. 
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
[quote]TooHuman wrote:
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
[quote]TooHuman wrote:
[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
I am 100% in the camp of mind your own business. Most of us do the best we can. Best is almost never good enough but you learn and hope to respond better next time. I do believe that you need to be a parent to truly understand what it means to parent. It’s like any other situation. You can make hypothetical responses to a number of imagined situations but until you actually live that moment, you can never truly know how you will act.[/quote]
Actually no, most mothers hit their kids reactively, regret it and then continue to escalate. this is a matter of FACT based on research:
This is precisely because they don’t work out the deep seated emotional turmoil within them and WAIT until they “actually live that moment”. If you don’t know whether you’ll smack your kid or remain non-violent when you’re overloaded with stress, YOU HAVE NOT PREPARED and that is NOT THE SAME as “doing the best we can”.
If you fail a test because you didn’t prepare or you fail to perform CPR correctly because you didn’t prepare or you fail to prepare in ANY other situation in life and someone gets hurt, The blame is SQUARELY on you.
ONLY parents get a blanket pass at failing to prepare and hurting their kids and THAT is total immoral bullshit.
[/quote]
Agree to disagree.
[/quote]
No the way this works in the real world is you have evidence and/or a rational counter-arguments or you’re wrong.
“agree to disagree” is what dishonest and immoral people use as a crutch when they have no relevant evidence.
Here’s another argument for you. You’re a bad person because you apologize for the lack of preparation of parents and subsequent violence against children.
[/quote]
My observation of the real world is that most honest and thoughtful people aren’t overburdened with the sense of knowing better than anyone else.
‘Agree to disagree’ is a polite way of disengaging with someone else who seems dogmatic and feels the need to convert. You will not change my world view. Neither will I change yours. We are, therefore left with ‘agree to disagree’.
[/quote]
“overburdened with the sense of knowing better than anyone else.”
This is just a passive aggressive insult.
“seems dogmatic” is also a passive aggressive insult.
From the wikipedia entry"
Dogma is a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true. It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it cannot be changed or discarded without affecting the very system’s paradigm, or the ideology itself.
Considering that i liked a huge amount of evidence on which to base my arguments a you wrote…“You will not change my world view. Neither will I change yours.”, who here is being “dogmatic”?
Also, you will in fact change my view on the subject because my conclusion are NOT IN ANY WAY incontrovertible.
All you need to do is provide empirical evidence, a syllogistic argument, anything other than anecdotes and logical fallcies, and I will follow it to wherever it leads.
God Damn it.
I wish I had remembered before hitting submit…
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
God Damn it.
I wish I had remembered before hitting submit…[/quote]
I gotta ya covered buddy…
or not…
[quote]TooHuman wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.
Proverbs 13:24 [/quote]
You agree with this biblical passage Orion? From what I remember,(I may be wrong) you’re no supporter of the initiation of force by the state.
It should be logically consistent that the appeal to authority when initiating force on a child is just as illogical and immoral, right?
[/quote]
I dont care one way or the other but your posts make me want to hit a toddler…
Which is odd, normally, I just want to split the heads of grownups…
With a broadaxe…
[quote]pushharder wrote:
TooHuman, if I recall correctly you aren’t a parent, right?
[/quote]
No I’m not, but you know that’s non-sequiter and continue to use the fallacy of an appeal to authority anyway.
You wouldn’t agree that the following arguments are valid right?
“I’m going to bet, that whole sale (like 90%) of people agreeing with you in any of the comments you’re making on this thread are men.”
"Yes, as most women understand what being a woman is like, unlike someone who’s not a woman, so they reserve judgment. "
“I do believe that you need to be a woman to truly understand what it means to woman.”
None of those are valid rational criticisms of an argument about the actions of women and the same applies to parents.
[quote]orion wrote:
I dont care one way or the other but your posts make me want to hit a toddler…
[/quote]
lmao
[quote]TooHuman wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
TooHuman, if I recall correctly you aren’t a parent, right?
[/quote]
No I’m not, but you know that’s non-sequiter and continue to use the fallacy of an appeal to authority anyway.
You wouldn’t agree that the following arguments are valid right?
“I’m going to bet, that whole sale (like 90%) of people agreeing with you in any of the comments you’re making on this thread are men.”
"Yes, as most women understand what being a woman is like, unlike someone who’s not a woman, so they reserve judgment. "
“I do believe that you need to be a woman to truly understand what it means to woman.”
None of those are valid rational criticisms of an argument about the actions of women and the same applies to parents.[/quote]
No, all of them are in fact rational criticisms… But please, feel free to explain to the class what getting your period is like. Please describe the emotion in detail.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]TooHuman wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.
Proverbs 13:24 [/quote]
You agree with this biblical passage Orion? From what I remember,(I may be wrong) you’re no supporter of the initiation of force by the state.
It should be logically consistent that the appeal to authority when initiating force on a child is just as illogical and immoral, right?
[/quote]
I dont care one way or the other but your posts make me want to hit a toddler…
Which is odd, normally, I just want to split the heads of grownups…
With a broadaxe…
[/quote]
Would you care if there was evidence of the origin of state violence in child abuse?
What is driving this kind of visceral reaction from you instead of your usual well thought out counter-argument?
My wife and I are both professionals. We both work full time. We have 4 kids. We are wide ass open from sun up until well after sun down. Anyone who wants to critique our “parenting style” can go F themselves. This especially applies to people who have no kids but did once read about parenting on the internet. Mind your own damn business.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]TooHuman wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
TooHuman, if I recall correctly you aren’t a parent, right?
[/quote]
No I’m not, but you know that’s non-sequiter and continue to use the fallacy of an appeal to authority anyway.
You wouldn’t agree that the following arguments are valid right?
“I’m going to bet, that whole sale (like 90%) of people agreeing with you in any of the comments you’re making on this thread are men.”
"Yes, as most women understand what being a woman is like, unlike someone who’s not a woman, so they reserve judgment. "
“I do believe that you need to be a woman to truly understand what it means to woman.”
None of those are valid rational criticisms of an argument about the actions of women and the same applies to parents.[/quote]
No, all of them are in fact rational criticisms… But please, feel free to explain to the class what getting your period is like. Please describe the emotion in detail. [/quote]
See the thing about the scientific method and empiricism is that you can easily gather even qualitative evidence without having to experience it personally.
This is why in science empirical evidence(when available) always supersedes anecdotal evidence and the same can be applied to universalizing ethical principals.
For example here is anecdotal evidence from 21 women:
Here is a meta-analysis on the habitual, psychological, and behavioral experiences of women:
http://universityofsoutherncalifornia.createsend1.com/t/ViewEmail/j/ADD47DFBEA32FEE0