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Teen Strength Program?

I know the whole heavy lifting stunts your growth thing is bullshit, so I’m willing to squat heavy. I’m going for strength, so my main lifts (bench, press, squat, dead) are all 5 sets of heavy maximum effort triples (5x3, should I change this?) and each main compound lift has assistance lifts to it. I’m going to be doing a 3 day a week regimen (exercises will still be the same irregardless of the day). Here’s the program:

Bench press: 5x3, 1x5,3,1 (progressively heavier) with 45 seconds-1 minute in between sets with a chest stretch after every set.
Dumbbell press: 4x8
Dips 3xF

Squat: 5x3, 1x5,3,1
Glute ham raises: 3x10
Leg press: 3x8
Good mornings: 3x8

At this point I take a break and stretch for around 3 minutes to give my muscles a break/

Overhead press:5x3
Dumbbell press: 4x8
Push up position isometric holds: 3x45 with chains

Deadlift: 2x3,1x,5,3,1
Barbell Row: 5x3
Dumbbell row:3x8 (or kroc rows with heavy ass weight for as many reps as possible:AMRAP)
Face pulls:4x10

Also, I’m 15 so I have those noob and teen gains working for me (I’m a mesomorph to the extreme) so is one day between workouts and 2 days on the weekends good enough for recovery?

You do that all on one day? If so, that’s retarded. If each of these is it’s own day, then it isn’t bad. You should most likely get on a proven program however.

Yes, I do. I’m still in my noob gains phase and I’ve just started my linear progression. I don’t like strong lifts or SS because I feel they leave to much out (I didn’t feel worked out when I did them) and I made some small gains. I’ve judged my own bottom and it seems to respond pretty well to this program. I figure I add 5 pounds every monday and friday (or just mondays) and take advantage of my noobiness.

[quote]hurrdurrgomad wrote:
Yes, I do. I’m still in my noob gains phase and I’ve just started my linear progression. I don’t like strong lifts or SS because I feel they leave to much out (I didn’t feel worked out when I did them) and I made some small gains. I’ve judged my own bottom and it seems to respond pretty well to this program. I figure I add 5 pounds every monday and friday (or just mondays) and take advantage of my noobiness.[/quote]

Dude, the reason why you don’t feel “worked out” after a session of 5x5 is because you’re still weak. I guarantee you won’t be able to stick to your current routine when the weights get heavier.

[quote]hurrdurrgomad wrote:
Yes, I do. I’m still in my noob gains phase and I’ve just started my linear progression. I don’t like strong lifts or SS because I feel they leave to much out (I didn’t feel worked out when I did them) and I made some small gains. I’ve judged my own bottom and it seems to respond pretty well to this program. I figure I add 5 pounds every monday and friday (or just mondays) and take advantage of my noobiness.[/quote]

You would be better off following a proven program. What you are doing is going to run you into the ground. There are other linear progression programs out there, but you need to realize that all that assistance work is not only unnecessary, but counterproductive

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]hurrdurrgomad wrote:
Yes, I do. I’m still in my noob gains phase and I’ve just started my linear progression. I don’t like strong lifts or SS because I feel they leave to much out (I didn’t feel worked out when I did them) and I made some small gains. I’ve judged my own bottom and it seems to respond pretty well to this program. I figure I add 5 pounds every monday and friday (or just mondays) and take advantage of my noobiness.[/quote]

You would be better off following a proven program. What you are doing is going to run you into the ground. There are other linear progression programs out there, but you need to realize that all that assistance work is not only unnecessary, but counterproductive[/quote]

How so? To much assitance work isn’t good…how?

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]hurrdurrgomad wrote:
Yes, I do. I’m still in my noob gains phase and I’ve just started my linear progression. I don’t like strong lifts or SS because I feel they leave to much out (I didn’t feel worked out when I did them) and I made some small gains. I’ve judged my own bottom and it seems to respond pretty well to this program. I figure I add 5 pounds every monday and friday (or just mondays) and take advantage of my noobiness.[/quote]

You would be better off following a proven program. What you are doing is going to run you into the ground. There are other linear progression programs out there, but you need to realize that all that assistance work is not only unnecessary, but counterproductive[/quote]

Ok will this work? I’ll do AxBxAxxBxAxB, etc does that sound good? The squat and bench part will be A and the OHP and deadlift part will be B.

If no, what programs do you recommend I follow? Please don’t say SL or SS no accomplished powerlifter/strongman/bodybuilder has ever done those programs.

Its impossible to recover of that workout in a 2 days period. I mean, thats more than some people do in a whole week.
Right now you might be able to recover becouse you arent lifting that much but as soon as the weights go up you will stop gaining strenght and most likely get injured.

noob gains or not thats too much. and I’m sure many powerlifters started with a 5x5 system. I dont know why you won’t trust the advice of others who have done it already. squatting 3 times a week and adding 5 lbs to the bar every time will get add 60 lbs a month to your squat . use that to get to weight where you " feel" like you worked out and then worry about branching out. and eat a ton of food. And irregardless is not a word. I’m not being a spelling nazi, irregardless is just not a real word.

[quote]orourkei wrote:
noob gains or not thats too much. and I’m sure many powerlifters started with a 5x5 system. I dont know why you won’t trust the advice of others who have done it already. squatting 3 times a week and adding 5 lbs to the bar every time will get add 60 lbs a month to your squat . use that to get to weight where you " feel" like you worked out and then worry about branching out. and eat a ton of food. And irregardless is not a word. I’m not being a spelling nazi, irregardless is just not a real word. [/quote]

Alright so this 5x5 system:
Squat 5x5
Bench press 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5
Ohp 5x5
Deadlift 1x5,3,1
Chin ups
Push ups

Thing is, I’m going for brute strength. Wouldn’t 5x3 be more suitable for me with assistance lifts to the main lifts?

Is that all on one day again? too much! squat daily, but alternate the other lifts like you mentioned above aba. bab. aba. etc. what are your goals exactly. how much do you weigh, what do you want to weigh. how mcuh do you currently lift, what do you want to lift in a year, is this for sports is this for powerlifting. if you are 15 and the issue of stunting growth has even crossed your mind that means your probably not 6’3" 240 so I am assuming you could use some mass. But then again I could be wrong. Give us some details.

[quote]orourkei wrote:
Is that all on one day again? too much! squat daily, but alternate the other lifts like you mentioned above aba. bab. aba. etc. what are your goals exactly. how much do you weigh, what do you want to weigh. how mcuh do you currently lift, what do you want to lift in a year, is this for sports is this for powerlifting. if you are 15 and the issue of stunting growth has even crossed your mind that means your probably not 6’3" 240 so I am assuming you could use some mass. But then again I could be wrong. Give us some details.
[/quote]

Hahahaha you got the height pretty much right I’m 6’2.5 and weight around 220. I’m doing this for my wrestling and bjj, plus I like to be strong and want to compete in some strongman competitions eventually. I bench 135 for 6 reps max, 155 is my 2 rep max but for some reason I can’t do 160 once. I squat 135 for 8 reps max, my max is around 170. Deadlift max is 250, I rep 5 with 235. OHP max is 95 for one, I rep 80 five times. I wanna weigh around 240 but a lot more muscle than fat (I’m pretty chunky right now I’d say around 17-18 percent body fat). Strength still is my main goal.

You essentially have four training days for some people on here, done in one day. If you are giving much effort that would run you into the ground.

ok this is a bitter pill to swallow but you need to trust the program. ss or sl . eat small farms worth of animals, sprinkle some carbs in there ( rice and sweet potatos on your work out days) and just keep putting iron on the bar. ITs not going to feel llike much at the time, but if you stick with it, you could increase your lifts by hundreds of lbs in a year. and thats not a hyperbole. your total could go up a few hundred pounds. being big and strong is about being consistant,not going balls to the wall every day for a month and getting inured

[quote]DSSG wrote:
You essentially have four training days for some people on here, done in one day. If you are giving much effort that would run you into the ground. [/quote]

You’re right, that’s why I’m dividing Squat and bench to session A and OHP and deadlift into session B and do ABABAB,etc. Should I do 5x5 for the main lifts or 5x3 (heavy ass max effort triples)?

just do the 5x5 until you get to the point when you cant recover from them, then try 8 x 3( more weight), then 5 x 3 (even more weight) . 5x5 will carry you a long way though. and dot over do the assistance. see how you feel that day and hammer them home . weighted dips on a bench day, some hamstring work after deadlifting. but like jim wendles says, dont major in the minors.

[quote]orourkei wrote:
just do the 5x5 until you get to the point when you cant recover from them, then try 8 x 3( more weight), then 5 x 3 (even more weight) . 5x5 will carry you a long way though. and dot over do the assistance. see how you feel that day and hammer them home . weighted dips on a bench day, some hamstring work after deadlifting. but like jim wendles says, dont major in the minors. [/quote]

OK so 5x5 for main lifts…for deadlifts just do 1x5 and 1x5,3,1?

[quote]hurrdurrgomad wrote:
I know the whole heavy lifting stunts your growth thing is bullshit, so I’m willing to squat heavy.[/quote]
I’m absolutely an advocate of smart weight training for kids/teens, but It’s actually not bullshit in the sense that training to muscular failure (max effort) can stunt growth in adolescent lifters.

As was said, the routine laid out in the first post is terribly designed. Just to point out a few issues that haven’t been addressed:

Is this a hold at the top, like a plank, or a hold at the bottom with the arms near 90 degrees? Either way, it’s very unlikely that you actually need the added resistance of chains. And I’m not even sure what the “3x45” means. 3 sets of 45 seconds?

Beginners and inexperienced lifters should not be doing Kroc rows. They can see plenty of strength and muscle gains with “regular” dumbbell rows. Kroc rows are often misused and/or simply performed wrong, usually as an excuse to swing around inappropriately heavy weights with crap technique. Pretend you’ve never heard of Krocs until you get your traditional dumbbell row up to decent weight for moderate reps with good form.

[quote]Also, I’m 15 so I have those noob and teen gains working for me (I’m a mesomorph to the extreme)

(I’m pretty chunky right now I’d say around 17-18 percent body fat)[/quote]
You are not “a mesomorph to the extreme.” Again, pretend you’ve never heard of meso/ecto/endomorphs. Even though you’re “just” training for strength, you can see some good muscle gains and fat loss if you keep a little bit of an eye on your nutrition. Nothing extreme or “bodybuilderish” needed, no major diet plan, just eat simple “good food” and a little less junk while training consistently.

Um, how long could you possibly have followed the programs before deciding that they weren’t for you?

The core principles behind Starting Strength and Stronglifts have worked for strength athletes and bodybuilders for the last 60+years.

You shouldn’t be lifting “heavy ass max effort” anything. Always keep at least 2 reps in the tank.

Long story short (too late), look into Jim Wendler’s 5/3/1. It can deliver pretty much exactly what you need.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Long story short (too late), look into Jim Wendler’s 5/3/1. It can deliver pretty much exactly what you need.[/quote]
That said, I’d be remiss if I didn’t at least mention my preferred routine to make sure young bucks are healthy enough and physically prepared (in terms of super-basic strength, conditioning, and flexibility) for heavy training.

Mon., Wed., and Fri.
Squat 2x15 (No weight, keep both feet flat on the floor.)
Push-up 2x15 (On your toes, go until the chest almost touches the floor.)
Lunge 2x15 (Alternate legs, 1 rep left/1 rep right.)
Neutral-grip pull-up 2x15 (assisted if necessary. Could be substituted with inverted rows.)
Plank 2x15-count (Hold the top part of a push-up, on the toes, arms straight, keep the whole body straight. Count to 15.)
Burpee/squat thrust 2x15

When you can get through that bodyweight-only workout, especially as a bigger dude like you are, I’d be much more comfortable with progressing to a strength-focused lifting program.

How are you going to gauge progress? Are you going to add 5-10 pounds each session? each week? each month? Or are you going just add weight when you “feel” you’ve gotten stronger? What kind of strength levels are you trying to reach with this program? Are you training/peaking for a meet?

You need to answer these questions before you slap on some exercises, sets and reps. It’s not going to work as well as the other proven programs because like you said, you’re a beginner. You won’t know how your body responds; what reps/sets/percentages it works best at.

SS is not easy. None of those 3x5 or 5x5 programs are easy. Sure when you first start it’s nothing. But let’s say your max right now is 225. In a few weeks you’ll be trying to do that for 3x5. Do you really think that’s easy? Resting up to 10 minutes before a 2nd set of squats is the norm when you’re reaching the end of these programs.

Also, most established powerlifters are one of two things, or both: They’re genetic freaks who can train insane 5-6 times a week or they’ve been training for so long, they’ve developed the knowledge to create a program for themselves and others.