A cursory inspection of obesity rates by state (see the map “Adult Obesity Rate by State, 2015” at the link) suggests the existence of an East/West dichotomy (to my eye, anyway):
I found out on a few trips to Alabama to visit the wifes family that you cant actually eat too much cornbread with sausage gravy.
Especially jalapeno cornbread with sage sausage gravy. I tried. It just can’t happen.
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Ill say it:
Men who have money can afford to be fat, as the money will still bring in the girls.
Women who get rich by marrying right, need to be skinny/not overweight to attract their rich partner.
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This doesn’t matter and is way off topic at this point, but @BrickHead your wife is clearly beautiful and sounds like a great woman, you’ve always seemed exceedingly cool and helpful on here, and @maverick88 is a doofus. That’s all.
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Sometimes it’s that are not any finances to even manage.
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You’re failing to mention the plethora of Portuguese food we have … You’re up near Lawrence right? I’m pretty sure y’all have a decent amount of Portuguese up there. Portuguese food is fuckin’ delicious. But yet, French Canadian food is terrible (source: my mom is FC and my meme’s cooking was as bland as it gets)
Amen for Southeast Asian cooking. I love me some fresh spring rolls and Spicy Thai Basil.
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I think it’s also worth noting that many poor people are obese for the same reasons they are poor. As I said, not all poor people are rural salt-of-the-earth types who for whatever reasons became impoverished to no faults of their own, say because their employers decide to outsource its operations or because their own governments sold them out, which has been in the case in this country in god knows how many examples. I recognize that in America, one can go from zero to hero rather quickly, and I certainly don’t want that happening to me, although it can!
But, as I said, for the many–NOT ALL (we just always have to mention we are generalizing or else someone might misinterpret or be insulted)-who are obese AND poor, they are obese because of the same reasons they are poor. They are dumb, careless, and in many cases are “uneducated” (gotta love that popular, abused and misused word), and above all, stinking lazy! I think after working with urban scum and freeloaders for the past fifteen years that this is an accurate assessment.
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I agree this is an accurate assessment, but one concerning your biases (note I didn’t say bigotry or racism), not the causal relationships among the traits and states you mention. I strongly suspect that if you didn’t work with “urban scum and freeloaders” your conclusions would be different. This is why data, not anecdotes, are needed when addressing empirical issues.
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I did mention poor people who are poor from no fault of their own right and are otherwise upstanding and intelligent, right? Those people are careful, hard working, and nature luckily nature did not make them shiftless and dumb.
I don’t mind your post, but I ask, why would you mention bias when I stated there are other sorts of poor people right in my post from which you quoted?
For those who are “shiftless and dumb,” how can you be sure that ‘nature made them that way’? You seem to assume the causality runs ‘dumb & shiftless’–>‘poor & obese.’ But isn’t it possible that, in fact, causality actually runs the other way for a significant proportion of individuals?
Because that’s exactly what your post evidences. By your own admission, your experiences have led you to this particular set of beliefs concerning the relationships among certain traits (intelligence; laziness) and certain states (poverty; obesity). It must be emphasized that these beliefs are not grounded in data/analysis, nor are the amenable to public evaluation. They’re purely a product of your personal experience. That is the very essence of bias. Doesn’t mean you’re wrong, of course. But the mere fact that you are convinced your opinion is correct–that you truly believe yours is an “accurate assessment”–does not make it so.
I am sure of this because nature does indeed produce some geniuses on one end, and at the other end, stupid people. Hence we even have the words genius and moron, that have clear definitions that we’re understood to this day. I don’t care how much education, adequate nutrition, and nurturing is given to some people. Some people are gifted; some are not. I can study all I want but I will never have the intellectual ability and ingenuity of geniuses like William Shockley or Stephen Hawking. I can jump every day, with all 5’10" of me, and I still won’t ever play basketball like 5’7" Spud Webb!
This might sound snippy, but I am not surprised by your statement egalitarian implications.
Assume?! No, it’s not an assumption; in many cases, that’s simply the way it is. Do you think a moron can produce much? And do you not think some morons are incapable of understanding and applying some education, including nutrition education, and/or heed the consequences of some destructive actions?! There are even people of average intelligence who can’t do so!
I didn’t even go over this! But if you want me to, that’s fine. So of course being careless as an otherwise smart or person of average intelligence in regards to nutrition is going to make them lazy or unable to mentally and physically perform as sharply as people who take care of themselves!
Gee, why would an adult with half a brain think this?! Seriously, I find my sarcasm hard to hold back sometimes. If you don’t want to believe that energy, intelligence, and agency are all qualities that one needs to even live a middle-class life, let alone be highly industrious, or that laziness (eg, not even showing up to work and ignoring adult obligations), lack of agency, and stupidity can lead one down a path to poor health and destitution or having to rely on others–eg, the American taxpayer, the world’s Santa Claus–then I am seriously going to think you’re not dealing with a full deck or you are just plain screwing around with me. Again, I don’t say this to be insulting, nor because I am sitting behind a computer. If we were sitting across from one another, I would simply, in the most gentlemanly way that I could, ask, “Are you freaking kidding me?!”
Why the heck would this even need public evaluation?! And I don’t know what data/analysis you are speaking of, because there’s a ton of different kinds of data out there, and I am sure that if one dug deep enough, they can find such material dealing with average IQ of a nation and industriousness!
Also, even being a man with an advanced degree myself, I admittedly do not think every damn matter has to be discussed in regards to data and analysis! For one thing, in this politically correct and egalitarian world, some studies can’t even be engaged any longer, particularly those dealing with IQ. Do we need data for every conclusion? Are we supposed to ignore all of ones experiences, that reliably occur over and over and over again, or even use plain logic and observation, especially for what I speak of here?
I actually find this disingenuous, because it discredits the multitude of experiences and observations–you know, like thousands upon thousands of them–simply because there are not formal studies investigating each and every case.
So it is biased to conclude that many people–NOT ALL, which I emphasize for someone like you-- who are lazy and lack agency–the sort that never lifted a hand or a foot for anyone including, their family members, (former) friends, and themselves, and not showing up for the free education provided to them, and then spitting in the face of their caregivers, figuratively and in some cases literally–wind up obese, drug addicted, parasitic, and poor because of these characteristics? Hmm. Interesting.
Do you only speak in terms of academia and constantly dismiss real life happenings? I mean, academics who publish studies or those in charge of what’s published absolutely aren’t biased right?
Agains I want to stress that I have nothing against you considering I don’t know you at all, but I do think some of what you say is dismissive and… I don’t know how to describe it… perhaps out of touch!
I had a strong suspicion you in particular would touch upon the use of the word dumb and shiftless, likely because use of such words can imply the user of them isn’t the most sensitive around but is nevertheless realistic. But we do have those words as part of our language for practical reasons, right?
Yes, this is clearly true. But it doesn’t follow that intelligence is solely determined by ‘nature,’ as you seem to imply.
I also note that your response is utterly mute with respect to the trait of ‘shiftlessness.’ Are you positing a bell-shaped curve, wholly determined by nature, for that as well?
The term moron originally referred to individuals who suffered a certain degree of mental retardation. As it happens, such individuals can actually be quite productive in the right setting. And it certainly isn’t the case that they’re all obese (or shiftless, for that matter).
No, that’s not what I meant. Rather, I meant that growing up in poverty can lead to permanent changes in one’s physiology such that, as an adult, the individual is not as intelligent as they would have been otherwise. It’s the cognitive equivalent of stunted physical growth owing to childhood malnutrition.
The way you begin this statement says it all. You are making an assertion concerning your values–concerning the way you think the world should be. I’m talking about attempting to understand the world as it is. It has nothing to do with what I ‘want to believe.’
If you were simply stating your opinion, no data/public evaluation would be needed. But to my eye at least, you are attempting to pass off your opinions as statements of facts (ie, when you described your opinion as “an accurate assessment”) about an empirical issue. And factual statements concerning empirical issues require data, and must be subject to public evaluation.
Then please do so, if you are so inclined. But simply saying ‘I’m sure data are out there to support my opinion’ doesn’t wash.
For conclusions concerning empirical issues, yes. For simply stating one’s opinion about an empirical issue, of course not.
There is an impressive (as in Nobel-prize-winning) body of research indicating just how misleading this approach can be. If you’re interested, here’s a good jumping-off point:
So while there’s nothing wrong with using one’s experiences and observations to generate hypotheses, empirical issues can only be definitively addressed empirically.
As I said above, experience and observations are excellent jumping-off points for research. But no matter how certain you are in your opinions, it is unreasonable to expect other people to accept them as facts-about-the-world.
I think the most clear bias appearing here is one against “urban scum” that “don’t give a shit about anything” versus the “rural salt-of-the-earth types who for whatever reasons became impoverished to no faults of their own.”
Basically, the majority of rural salt of the earth folks are poor and smart but, hungry because they’re in food desserts… but the majority of poor folks in cities, they’re poor-lazy-dumb-obese-freeloaders. It’s easy to see two dichotomies there.
But that’s just how this post appears.
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Thank you. I like your posts too!
Perhaps you don’t have ongoing contact with people who are considered super skinny. My youngest daughter at 16 is struggling to get up to 95lbs. Most of it is a side affect of medication combined with a skinny family. However, in high school, kids are cruel to anyone for any reason at any time. She’s accused of being anorexic etc.
I’ve watched her reaction after going to her doctor and not having gained enough/any weight. It’s the same type of shame I’m sure overweight people feel for not having lost weight.
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I was 98 pounds when I started my freshman year of high school. I cannot speak for girls, but if you do not think undersized boys catch much flak for being underweight, you obviously haven’t been one. I have quit literally been physically attacked for being underweight. It’s also a big part of the reason I did something about it and ended up where I am.
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@ouroboro_s
I would say I do have some degree of contact with people who I would consider super skinny(their arm is bout the size of my wrists but definitely smaller than my forearm). Not much because for the most part, we don’t have much in common.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have anything against people who’re super skinny, it’s pretty much the same logic as people who’re obese, who don’t make an active effort to lose weight and still complain about having slow metabolism and shit like that. They’re literally the exact opposite. Underweight, not making an active effort to gain weight and complaining about high metabolism etc etc.
As what I’ve previously said, I’m referring to people who pretty much just whine about it. No one likes a whiner. As for your daughter, I’m sorry to hear about what she has to go through. For the most part, I would like to think that people who’re skinny due to medical reasons won’t constantly go on about it and if they do that’s a little pathetic if you ask me. You’re trying to incite pity, that’s all. Telling me about your medical condition constantly won’t make the situation any better, everyone goes through some sort of hardship at some point in their life. Just deal with it to the best of your abilities. Well, at least that’s what I think but what do I know, I’m just a 19 year old kid on the internet.
Oh, I do know they get picked on. I was 173cm and 51kgs at the wonderful age of 16 and I got picked on quite a fair bit. To be fair, I do think that most kids get picked on in some tiny way or another simply because they’re at the age where everyone is kinda mean to each other.
I was actually referring to adults for the most part in that post. It’s always(I might be biased but it sure feels like the case) fat people who’re getting flack from the media.
An example I would use would be…
According to my fat friends, they would often get told by folks to just eat less and blah blah caloric restriction and stuff. For some odd reason, folks seem to think it’s alright to just start giving them advice on losing weight despite the fact that they were never fat to begin wtih.
On the other hand, I once casually joked about “maybe you should have a couple more burgers man, you look pretty fragile” to an acquaintance and it got the whole group riled up. I was questioned about stuff like who was I to judge his lifestyle and eating habits?
Do you get where I’m coming from now?
@EyeDentist I will like to respond with more, but what is frustrating is that you state things I’ve already said as if I didn’t say them and then also say that I wrote things that I never did. And again, I am not saying this against you personally, but I do find it disingenuous to say that I am biased when I am simply stating what I’ve observed THOUSANDS of times. I don’t understand how simple observation is biased. In fact, how can an observation be biased? If I look at the sky and observe that it’s blue, how is that biased?
Also, despite this coming across as silly or even making me look silly, I’m sorry, I am just not inclined, with either energy or motivation, to dig up studies for internet talk on a forum, despite interest in some topics.
I don’t have much time to scroll through posts here because I am leaving in a few minutes, but I think you wrote somewhere that poor nutrition can lead to poor development or handicaps. I think in my line of work and study, I should know that, right?
And… not every lazy person is fat. Where did I say this? I simply said that many people are fat because of the same reasons they are poor, in the same way that a rich and muscular or athletic man might have these two characteristics for the same reasons as well (eg, ambition, resourcefulness, image consciousness, vanity, etc.). I don’t know what your criticism of this line of reasoning is!
I get what you are saying, I just don’t see much difference in the way the 2 groups are treated. Do fat kids getting bullied for being fat not count because most kids get picked on?
I used to get diet advice constantly for being skinny. From everyone.
And if you joked with a fat acquaintance, “maybe you shouldn’t eat so many hamburgers” in the middle of a group, I’m pretty sure they’d get riled up in defense of them too.
I’m just not seeing significant differences even in adults. I mean, there is plenty of skinny shaming out there too. There is a large popular movement built around demonizing skinny models as unhealthy and undesirable. They even try to publicize that skinny models aren’t real people. There is just as much negativity and judgment around anorexia as gluttony IMO. I just think it’s pretty balanced.
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