T Nation

Teaching vs. Brainwashing in College

I quoted a post from the month old “accused of sexism” thread, then decided it would be better with it’s own topic because that one was a month old and I was sort of off topic.

[quote]slimjim wrote:
kevbo wrote:

I used to the example of NBA vs WNBA, and nearly everyone except me agreed that women in the WNBA are as good as guys in the NBA.

I once had the same argument, used the same comparison, and received an identical result with a small group of college classmates. I have to think the guys were just trying to score points with the ladies, but the females in the class were heatedly arguing that the WNBA teams are just as good…I thought I was losing my frickin mind, a good highschool boys team would stomp all over their champ, let alone an NBA team.

One of these girls who was on our college team then challenged me to a game of 1 on 1 which I won by sticking my ass out and posting her up for every point, then she started crying…not to be mean, but I was like,“I didn’t even play basketball in highschool.”

For the record I thought I had a chance to hook up with a couple of the girls in that group, I never did so in the end, I guess winning the argument wasn’t all it was cracked up to be.[/quote]

My older sister who’s taking sociology courses tried to do the same thing to me.

We were watching the stanley cup finals, carolina vs. edmonton, and she was already back from school. For some obscure reason, she decides to bring up women’s hockey. It went something like this.
She says something about the olympic women’s hockey or thier pro league
Me: It’d be a joke if they played an NHL team.
Her: They’re both equals! They’re just as good athletes as the men.
Me: How come there has only been one women to play a period of exhibition hockey in history, if all these other women are so good?
Her: Women’s hockey is just a different game, they don’t have checking or anything.
Me: They got beat by a half decent varsity prep school team, without hitting.
Her: Wasn’t it close?
Me: It might have been a two goal game, but they wanted to have class against the national team, so sat thier first two lines after about 5 minutnes.
Her: You’re lying! (flipping out)
My dad: He’s pretty much right, and telling the truth. Joe Shmoe’s dad (my friend who was the best player on the team) told me the exact same thing.
Me: Kate, he’s coached girls hockey for 8 years, and he knows the guys are better, even if it is a different game.
Her: But they’re equal!

She was in denial, it’s crazy what some of these professors try and brainwash thier students.

She is also convinced that EVERY corporation is evil. Granted, there are a ton of them that do scumbag things, like big pharm, tobacco and such. But she won’t start an investment account with UBS (a Goldman Sacks like company) because of this reason. Is she the only one that’s nuts?

I don’t think anyone can be “brainwashed” against their will.

Some people will find any excuse (even, “but my professor says…”) to believe in a conclusion they like.

The teacher just presents a viewpoint; it is up to the student to evaluate and then decide whether to accept it or reject it.

In this case, the problem seems that the quoted poster’s sister decided to accept the professor’s assertion that women’s sports are equal to men’s sports because she liked the sentiment, and despite good evidence against it, still believed it.

The fault is not with “brainwashing” by the teacher, but with the poor argument analysis skills of the sister.

[quote]hockechamp14 wrote:

Her: Women’s hockey is just a different game, they don’t have checking or anything.

Me: Kate, he’s coached girls hockey for 8 years, and he knows the guys are better, even if it is a different game.

Her: But they’re equal!

[/quote]

This has nothing to do with brainwashing, just trying to keep an open mind about things.

A “different” game is not a better game, nor is it a lesser or equal game. Just as men and women are “different”, even though we are both human beings, shouldn’t it follow that our games also be “different”, even though we are playing the same sports?

There are women’s teams for just about every sport that men play, (yes, even rugby…check out the pic in my profile) so why don’t you guys play field hockey? Perhaps it’s just too different! Just wondering.

I dunno about brainwashing, I think some people are just fucking retarded.

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
There are women’s teams for just about every sport that men play, (yes, even rugby…check out the pic in my profile) so why don’t you guys play field hockey? Perhaps it’s just too different! Just wondering.[/quote]

Isn’t men’s field hockey like the national sport of Pakistan?

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:

Isn’t men’s field hockey like the national sport of Pakistan?[/quote]

Just Googled it. Damn, son… you’re right. How non-PC of me not to keep a global perspective when it comes to sports! I must be brainwashed!!

Sounds like your sister takes too many gender and social equity focused courses and does not attend a research focused university. Let me know if I am wrong on any of the above counts.

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:

Isn’t men’s field hockey like the national sport of Pakistan?

Just Googled it. Damn, son… you’re right. How non-PC of me not to keep a global perspective when it comes to sports!

[/quote]

On my island of Fuckitalltahell this activity is called “ball whackin’”. I demand you recognize us as well, you politically INcorrect she-heathen!!

[quote]smallmike wrote:

The fault is not with “brainwashing” by the teacher, but with the poor argument analysis skills of the sister.[/quote]

And the sister’s desire to get a good grade by pleasing a rather piss poor professor.

[quote]BigPaul wrote:
Sounds like your sister takes too many gender and social equity focused courses and does not attend a research focused university. Let me know if I am wrong on any of the above counts.[/quote]

She transferred from WPI to UConn after freshman year because WPI was too “reasearch oriented” for her… haha

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
hockechamp14 wrote:

Her: Women’s hockey is just a different game, they don’t have checking or anything.

Me: Kate, he’s coached girls hockey for 8 years, and he knows the guys are better, even if it is a different game.

Her: But they’re equal!

This has nothing to do with brainwashing, just trying to keep an open mind about things.

A “different” game is not a better game, nor is it a lesser or equal game. Just as men and women are “different”, even though we are both human beings, shouldn’t it follow that our games also be “different”, even though we are playing the same sports?

There are women’s teams for just about every sport that men play, (yes, even rugby…check out the pic in my profile) so why don’t you guys play field hockey? Perhaps it’s just too different! Just wondering.[/quote]

My point was that if talented players even at that prep school were to play by “women’s” rules (no bodychecking, full cages) --which they were they would still stomp the women. The only thing I have against women’s hockey is the lack of international competition outside north america which makes for boring games. I’m not quite sure what you were asking, but I hope that answers your question. I might help my dad coach his team this year, so that should be fun.

So what’s the conclusion, is she nuts? is she the only one?

Yomomma, I read your post again, and I guess I posted it so that I brought up stuff about men, but she was the one comparing. I think before that I may have even said that they’re two things that are uncomparable. But yeah I wasn’t trying to poo-poo on women’s hockey, they can go do thier thing and it’s fine with me.

You’re both wrong. I woman can be an excellent athlete, without having to beat a man.

I can appreciate a good game of woman tennis as much as I can appreciate two guys on the court.

The fact that the best woman are no match for any decent male tennisplayer is not important. They are both the best players in their field, and they train just as hard, play just as hard.

So yes, they are equals.

Let’s compare it to boxing. A light weight boxer shouldn’t be a match for a heavy weight boxer. But they can both me champions in their own weight class.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
On my island of Fuckitalltahell this activity is called “ball whackin’”. I demand you recognize us as well, you politically INcorrect she-heathen!![/quote]

Sorry Prof. Women don’t have any experience with keeping their balls straight.

Maybe your sister was dropped as a child? Besides, if she transferred from a research university, it sounds like she was looking for someone who shared her viewpoint that theories shouldn’t come from fact, but instead should be pulled out of your ass.

[quote]hockechamp14 wrote:
She transferred from WPI to UConn after freshman year because WPI was too “reasearch oriented” for her… haha
[/quote]
That makes perfect sense then, UConn’s department is composed largely of gender/class/gender focused people, a lot of critical theory people too, which would explain where her take on corporation comes from as well.

I think people usually end up drinking a little too much of the cool aid when they end up in departments that are stacked in any one area with too many faculty or course offerings as this will lead them to taking many courses that have similar theoretical bases and require them to regurgitate the same stuff over and over on exam after exam and paper after paper.

The thing they constantly slam into our heads is that you’re NOT supposed to be regurgitating information at a college level.

Instead, you’re supposed to be evaluating and forming your own analysis, even at an undergraduate level.

Oh and men are just plain better, it’s a scientific fact.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
You’re both wrong. I woman can be an excellent athlete, without having to beat a man.

I can appreciate a good game of woman tennis as much as I can appreciate two guys on the court.

The fact that the best woman are no match for any decent male tennisplayer is not important. They are both the best players in their field, and they train just as hard, play just as hard.

So yes, they are equals.

Let’s compare it to boxing. A light weight boxer shouldn’t be a match for a heavy weight boxer. But they can both me champions in their own weight class.[/quote]

Yes, but the question posed was in general and on average “can a Hockey team of men beat a woman’s team”, the answer for this concerning any sport endeavor is usually yes, men can and will win.

I think it does matter, I want to see the best MMA guys fight, I prefer to watch PrideFC matches opposed to some local organization. The matches may be just as close, but you can SEE the difference in SKILL and ABILITY. The same goes for Tennis or any other sport. I do like women’s tennis though.

In the realm of female sports a woman may be a great say basketball player, but when you concern the entire human population, and factor in men, she most likely couldn’t even be a reserve on an NBA team.

It’s not to say that men are better, as there are so many variables to human life, but when it comes to the physical and power activities men will excel. Look at bodybuilding, springting, powerlifting et cetera. Your sister prefers fantasy and the false sense of comfort as opposed to the truth, the same that overtly believe they will have a fantastic afterlife.

I don’t understand the argument of not being able to compare the two due to “the sexes being different.” That argument is flawed, the differences are the very reason why men excel in physical activies not the dynamics or rules of the sport. The fact that the ball is small for women in basketball is not a irrelevent difference but a difference due to the fact that they can’t grasp a normal sized ball.

[quote]Ghost22 wrote:
The thing they constantly slam into our heads is that you’re NOT supposed to be regurgitating information at a college level.

Instead, you’re supposed to be evaluating and forming your own analysis, even at an undergraduate level.

Oh and men are just plain better, it’s a scientific fact.[/quote]

Yes, the ONE THING one is supposed to take away from a college/university education is CRITICAL thinking. With this I learned a great deal from professors who had very different view points from my own.

Once you see where their biases are you simply take that into account when approaching the information they are presenting, how they choose to present it, what they choose to leave out, etc… Learning is an active process, not passive laid back “spoon feed it to me” affair. Even though it gets me into trouble in the world outside academia, I still practice a very aggressive program of critical thought (which I must admit has mostly evolved into cynicism).

Women and men are Different.

Mens sports and womens sports are different.

Mens BB is an “abovethe rim” game. Womens is not.

That being said, i enjoy watching both games. Theres a lot more teamwork involved in the womens game. The skill is being lost on the mens side in favor of athleticisim.

The best 2 women BB players i’ve ever seen.
Cynthia Cooper, formerly of the Houston comets. Had skills, could shoot, pass, play tenacious D, (hah) i once saw her play in a pick up game @ the dean dome, against some unc mens players. She was one of the best if not the best player on the court.

Cheryl Miller, the best womens player ever. She was dominant could do it all. I once heard her brother interviewed.He admitted that the first time he beat her in one on one was the summer before his JR year @ ucla. Could she have beaten jordan, magic, bird or magic. Nah. She’s a woman and physically different from men.

To me that dosent diminish their game, its just different.

[quote]EmperialChina wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
You’re both wrong. I woman can be an excellent athlete, without having to beat a man.

I can appreciate a good game of woman tennis as much as I can appreciate two guys on the court.

The fact that the best woman are no match for any decent male tennisplayer is not important. They are both the best players in their field, and they train just as hard, play just as hard.

So yes, they are equals.

Let’s compare it to boxing. A light weight boxer shouldn’t be a match for a heavy weight boxer. But they can both me champions in their own weight class.

Yes, but the question posed was in general and on average “can a Hockey team of men beat a woman’s team”, the answer for this concerning any sport endeavor is usually yes, men can and will win.

I think it does matter, I want to see the best MMA guys fight, I prefer to watch PrideFC matches opposed to some local organization. The matches may be just as close, but you can SEE the difference in SKILL and ABILITY. The same goes for Tennis or any other sport. I do like women’s tennis though.

In the realm of female sports a woman may be a great say basketball player, but when you concern the entire human population, and factor in men, she most likely couldn’t even be a reserve on an NBA team.

It’s not to say that men are better, as there are so many variables to human life, but when it comes to the physical and power activities men will excel. Look at bodybuilding, sprinting, powerlifting et cetera. Your sister prefers fantasy and the false sense of comfort as opposed to the truth, the same that overtly believe they will have a fantastic afterlife.

I don’t understand the argument of not being able to compare the two due to “the sexes being different.” That argument is flawed, the differences are the very reason why men excel in physical activies not the dynamics or rules of the sport. The fact that the ball is small for women in basketball is not a irrelevent difference but a difference due to the fact that they can’t grasp a normal sized ball.
[/quote]

Yes!!! Good job!!! The only thing is that tennis shouldnt be used as an example for this:
The fact that the best woman are no match for any decent male tennisplayer is not important.
Because in tennis and golf its different than in basketball and rugby.

I fail to see how your sister’s views can be attributed to her coursework. Maybe it is, but you didn’t present any logical connections in your posts. I know a lot of people go to college and get involved in various special-interest groups and wholly adopt the beliefs of those groups.

I took a sociology course in college and it was one of the better courses I took due to the insight it provided me into what makes people tick. Never underestimate the importance of being able to read someone quickly and “knowing” them at an early stage.

Teenagers and college kids are generally more susceptible to “brainwashing” because they usually have a limited life experience and are open to new ideas. I think your sister just needs a good bukakiing.

DB