Almost every country has atleast 1 special forces unit some countries have 10+ and if you want to compare the merits of each do a google search there are thousands of discussions on which is better from training regimes to equipment and each discussion seems to say it depends on the mission.
I don’t want to start a heated discussion and have major respect for every special forces member but as I’m British I’ve always been fond of the SAS, SBS, Royal Marines and the Commandos
Actually Rep, the British SAS is apparently even more efficient and highly trained then the SEALS, who are definetly no slouches themselves. A friend of mine in the armed forces has told me many interesting facts about how each of these elite teams operates and it is extremely interesting. Much respect to both of those groups.
But as far as this argument goes, it is a fact that there is always resentment towards the king at the top of the hill. Of course there will be resentment towards the US because frankly it’s the biggest and most powerful nation out there and it pretty much has no real opposition when it pursues it’s own interest. But really, it’s hard to say the US is evil just because of the shady things that the government does that the people never really hear about, because EVERY world power would do that if not to a much greater extent of “evilness” then the states. Could you imagine if Saddam was in charge of the most powerful nation on Earth? That would suck more then passing a kidney stone in the shape of an axe!
I think what kind of irritates other nations about the US is largely due to the moron in the white house. Bush just seems like an arrogant, stupid prick who believes he has been appointed by God to save the world (ie: America) from evil. But JFK was a man that the entire world could get behind, mainly because they respected him. Fuck, Clinton carried a shitload more respect then Bush does. So what if he liked the poontang? If someone told me that the main reason they were running for president WASN’T to get lots of pussy I could never trust them. Wait, I think I’ve got a little too far off topic here…
I personally have never met an American who was rude, disrespectful, or anything other then quite likeable and pleasant. The people in the Government are the ones who seem like the cunts. And frankly, I think the people in my country’s government are just as big cunts so why would I hold any resentment towards americans based on dickheads in office? I personally thought it was a great idea to go ploughing into Baghdad to get rid of that gunt Saddam (something that should have probably been done a while ago, but alas), and after seeing those mass graves being dug up I was ready to strap on a stars n’ stripes patch just so I could shoot the bastard myself. But on the other side, I think it’s mighty unfair for American’s to dislike countries such as France for not condoning or helping with their attack on Iraq. It was a decision that the government made in their countries best interest, something that the American government maight well have done in a similar situation. Sure, the French government is probably a bunch of vaginal swabs, but don’t condemn the people. The Canadian government decided against defying the UN and assisting the US, but a large, LARGE number of us puckheads disagreed with that decision. In the end can’t we all just realize that our governments are responsible for telling us who we are supposed to like or dislike this week, so we should obviously ignore them and not let politics get in the way of friendly conversation on a weightlifting message forum. In the immortal words of Pamela Anderson, “Just put it anywhere”. Amen.
Watch the movie Bravo Two Zero. It’s about Andy McNabb and his SAS team in the the Gulf War. It’s based on a true story.
All SF operators are bad asses. Some excell in one area over others but the differences are a lot less than the similarities. Part of being who they are is believing that they are the best, so they will argue about that until their last breath. I wouldn’t fuck with any one of them on a bet.
I think I like the SBS (Special Boat Service) but anyway to be a member you need to be a Royal Marine, Pass SAS training and then pass SBS training which from what I’ve heard iincludes being sleep deprived then left on remote Scottish island for two weeks naked with a very small survival kit and some fur to fashion clothing out of.
“abal, all I can suggest is that you reread the speech, all your points are addressed in it …”
Well, the article adresses the main issue (the legality), but it does not answer it. All the arguments given for allowing america to break the law can be used by every terrorist as well. With this kind of argument, terrorists can be very happy. If somebody is against your view of the world, its your right (or even duty when reading some of the arguments here) to start killing.
Isn’t that the exactly same reasoning Bin Laden uses? Only that his view of the world is less acceptable to us bred in western civilization? Why should it be more acceptable to attack another country without UN approval because you support free trade than when you support the sharia? (Personally I support free trade and think that the sharia is outdated for about 500 years)
But my main point isn’t even legality - its eficciency. Why copy the unsuccessful actions of Israel, when America brought down a much bigger enemy (soviet communism) with pacience and diplomacy?
The USSR was a nuclear threat, and it did not fly airplanes into buildings. The Soviet threat was part of the cold war. The war was not named for temperature.
You keep bringing legality and right to attack into this. We were attacked first. I am sure that if any other nation attacked us in the same way, we would deal with them similarly. If your own nation were attacked in such a manner, wouldn’t you want the same thing?
This war is not simply an attempt to force everyone to see our way.
Why do people like “adal” come here to vent their anti-American hatred? Does anyone else ever ask themselves that question?
Now perhaps they are all over the Internet spewing their hate, but it seems that for a muscle building forum we get an awful lot of anti-American venom. What do you think guys?
And I wonder if it’s not better if we simply ignore these brainless dim wits rather than feed their need for attention and allowing them to vent even more. In this case adal has posted four times, when perhaps it would have ended with the first post. Then again many of you nailed him down pretty well, and that too must have felt good. Oh well…
Sorry but communism was brought down via us spending them into bankruptcy and the internal decay of the country along with the fact that command communism is an utterly inefficient economic system and the people living under it hated it. I took a class in russian politics 2 years ago and all my TAs were from ukraine/romania/russia and not one of them had a good thing to say about communism. The fall of communism certainly wasn’t due to diplomacy
If I hated america, which I dont, there would really be little reason to post here. But america does not only consist of rednecked no brainers. I have worked and trained in America, meeting only people who were fed up with current leaders as well and sharing a very international point of view. My reason to post here is:
Encourage those in America that are sick and tired of this army nonsense as well. Those that would rather spend more money fighting real threads like pollution, analphabetism and a terrible health care system (you mentioned it - not me) instead of supporting the weapons industry.
At least inform those that don’t find time to get real news about the views outside America (and these views are very established around here) and have to rely on the propaganda TV channels.
The reason why I dont post bodybuilding or weighttraining related stuff is simply I find a lot of knowledge here which really helps me in my sport and must admit that I have nothing to contribute or add on that topics. Being a marathon runner and triathlete I come from training principles quite far away - though the article “From the Gym to the Road” was absolutely perfect even for this application.
The problem is, that while the weighttraining related information is really first class around here, the political views are not. Maybe its a matter of social background - I dont find this political “national guard” atmosphere in triathlon related forums at all. I didn’t post anything political there, mainly talking seat angles of bikes …
Ecery time I hear someone start to complain about American foreign policy, I am reminded of Jack Nicholsons speech on the stand in “A Few Good Men”. I can’t remember it verbatim, but it was something like “I have neither the time nor the patience to explain my actions to a man who sleeps under the blanket of freedom that I provide, then questions the means by which I accomplish it.” For those of you who are interested in the jist of the article, The Warrior Elite, by Dick Couch, follows class 228 through their entire training, lasting over a year, and even catches up with a couple of them in Afghanistan. A great read.
I think the main issue here is that TC’s article, like Chris’s article before, had absolutely nothing to do with what you’re ranting and raving about. You’re just looking for an excuse to spew your agenda. You can do that somewhere else, without mindlessly attacking the editors of this mag. It just makes you look like a fanatic. A dumb one.
“The problem is, that while the weighttraining related information is really first class around here, the political views are not”.
And why is that adal? Why are your political views superior? Is it because t-mag is not packed full of naive, bed-wetting liberals? I think everything i’ve wanted to say to you has been said here, especially by anderson. Please re-read the previous responses and then go kill yourself.
~Jason
While “normal” armys will teach soldiers not to execute commands against the geneva convention (like executing armless women and kids) troups trained according to that scheme (Like the soviets did, the nazis did) will happily kill whenever required.
What nation are you a proud citizen of? It makes it a lot easier to point out the problems with the above statement.
O, I agree, I think that extensive training in how to effectively make the other poor dumb bastard die for his country definately makes it easier to kill a presented threat and to do it efficiently. However, I cant think of any developed nation (or normal nation) that has a standing army that trains its people to kill non combatants or anyone that does not pose a direct physical threat. Now, my experience only a applies to those I have dealt with of course, and this includes SAS and Royal Royal Marines from Britain, a Legionnaire or two from France, and some Aussies from the SAS and NZ SAS. I can say that their training was similiar or comparable to our training as far as not training to kill bystanders or children. Of course, I dont know where you are from yet, but I will be sure to do a comparison of your particular nation’s special forces training regime and that of Navy SEALS, DevGroup, Rangers, etc. Id hate to tell ya, but there is 99% chance that the training your European country conducts is probably based on either the USA’s or Britain’s training. (Since what has developed in the USA was initially based on British technique and arrangement)
I think it is also interesting to point out that the American Military prides itself on the ability of each individual to play a part in the entire war fighting process. This is most easily seen in tank tactics between old Soviet Russia and the USA. The US allows a much broader freedom for initiative and decision making at all levels than most other nations on the average, at least the US was the first to develop Infantry tactics, armor tactics, etc. based on the individuals instead of a group all relying on a single commander as seen with old Soviet Russia. In other words, as far as being trained immoral killers, what we have is a situation in which, if one immoral excessively violent individual does manage to get into a significant leadership position, those below do not unquestionably follow “illegal” orders. And yes, those individuals do exist in the USA’s military but no more so than any other nation.
Everything adal said is true. I was disappointed to read such mindless garbage written by TC who I thought was an intelligent guy. Of course the training they go through is meant to make them into mindless robots. The purpose is to break down their minds so they have no brain of their own. And what is so tough about shooting 8 year old, unarmed girls in the back which they have to do? Don?t give me that tough guy bullshit. I know for a fact that many of these guys develop psychological problems later in life when they realise what they have done. The US forces in Iraq have terrible problems with all the psychological issues.
Might as well make it official:
Respond to this thread if you are an internet wacko for a free bottle of Hot Rox.
I can’t believe the people that come out of the woodwork to bash an article about the mental and physical training of the military.
Lars, you have 5 posts and you decide to chime in on this one?
Okay, okay, you’re in the drawing for the Hot Rox.
Surprise, surprise!!! Look at all the knuckleheads… as far as the eye can see.
@Lars
I don’t know if you are serious or just making a joke. I have are hard time believing that anyone could be that dicked up with their thinking.
Mindless robots huh? You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. SEALs, Rangers, Marine Recon, and Green Beenies are some of the most intelligent people I’ve ever met.
“And what is so tough about shooting 8 year old, unarmed girls in the back which they have to do?”
Where the F@#$ did you pull that little factoid from? Is that part of hell week for the SEALs? Did TC just forget to mention that part?
I know that Saddam told his troops that to be a Marine you had to kill a member of your own family, but I didn’t think anyone was dumb enough to believe it.
“The US forces in Iraq have terrible problems with all the psychological issues.”
What are you a psychologist working with US forces? I was in Iraq and all of my buddies came out fine. The biggest psychological issues are dealing with reacurring nightmares about your buddies getting their heads blown off. War is war, if you come back, you come back affected by it. That’s just a way of life.
@Anderson and SteelyEyes
Don’t let the mindless college kids get you down. Ignorance is bliss. Someday they may get their mouths off of momma’s teat and realize what it takes to live free in this blessed country.
“War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth fighting for is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight; nothing that he cares about more than his own safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.” -John Stuart Mill
What I find laughable is that of all the groups of people to claim are mindless killers the SF community is the farthest from that.
What SEALs and Army SF and Delta Force guys are trained to do is exactly the opposite of being broken down into mindless anything. The men that break down fail and go elsewhere. The men that don’t fail learn just how much discomfort they can deal with and ways to overcome that mentally. They are highly motivated and more intelligent than average. They operate basically on their own so they have to be creative and adaptable, not mindless automatons.
I realize that these ideas are alien to some kid in college whose biggest struggle is hefting a bookbag to class so it may not sink in. Rarely do I ever have this sort of discussion with adult men that have accomplished something of merit, whether that is building a company, working and raising a family, or protecting their country.
My father in law has started several successful multi-million dollar companies in his life. One thing he told me recently is that his favorite pool of people to draw from are recently retired or separated military men. His explanation was that they tend to be more goal oriented and better at getting to a workable solution than the average person. The fact that all military officers have at least one degree also helps.
Mindless? You really don’t have a damn clue what the hell you’re talking about.
Pollution. It’s a threat and I’m the first to say the US is falling flat on it’s face in leadership on dealing with pollution in the last 20 years. Starting on page 70 of the March issue of Scientific American there is a really good article about global warming. On page 75 near the bottom the author describes how CO2 emmision rates flattened off in the 80s. Why? Mostly the results of the CAFE and pollution standards adopted after the mid 70s “oil crisis”. Since that time we haven’t been out front and we do need to get there again.
GW isn’t an environmental president and never will be but he won’t be in office forever.
don’t let us think your arabic origin has anything to do with your stand…
and please stop this “America is strong, we are weak…”. America has a huge depth and a troubled economy but still valliantly (and sometimes hastily) helps half of th eworld including the palestinian refugee camps, whil countries like saudi arabia which are rich, support the camps with only 10% of what america gives…
america is not strong by resources, nor by manpower. Iran alone has almost 75% of the US population. at least they got the guts, so they deserve the glory.
anderson, steely and others:
great intelligent comeback. you will not turn him but propaganda must not be ignored as the other side is winning that war, mainly because we asume that people will readily notice wrong from right…
other ppl must be educated.
lars,
Why don’t you pack up your measly 5 posts and go find a good bed wetting forum! At least there you will be able to post about something you know about! Oh, and take adal with you…Bye
arab origin … college student …
Your political views and your abilties to judge others have the same problem: Plain wrong …
And your war heroe stories are a joke everywhere. You were military superior to iraq, true. But heroic? Old unarmed men were shot because the american soldiers were so scared that they shot at everything moving. Not that I cant understand them - at least they remained humans - not that glorified killing machines you admire.
This was not a war. This was an attack on an amost defenseless opponent under wrong reasons and lies. This attack was as heroic as stabbing an old man in the back. Tenthousends of civilians died, kids could not be treated in hospitals any more, but there was no success. Operations (ambutations) were executed in Bagdad without narcotics because the embargo weakened Iraq did not have any medicine. Small children died of burning scars without pain relieve - some friends of mine were there to help - you heroes. And you think its heroic what you did? Shame on you! Hundreds of kids died in Bagdag alone from illnesses because of the broken down infrastructure.
USA installed that monster saddam, not Europe, not the kurds that you left alone again … And america could have got rid of saddam long ago by supporting his opposition.