T Nation

TC: 5/2 Diet Training Question


#1

TC (or anyone with experience using the 5/2 diet) - Is there any need to alter your training when using this diet, or do the high calories on training days allow for whatever type of training desired?

I asked a similar question in CT’s forum since I follow his training guidance. But I probably should’ve started here even though I don’t know if you (TC) would see my question. Thanks very much.


#2

[quote]D.E.N.N.I.S wrote:
TC (or anyone with experience using the 5/2 diet) - Is there any need to alter your training when using this diet, or do the high calories on training days allow for whatever type of training desired?

I asked a similar question in CT’s forum since I follow his training guidance. But I probably should’ve started here even though I don’t know if you (TC) would see my question. Thanks very much.[/quote]

I’m using this approach as we speak. I lift five times a week using a slightly altered program CT designed: http://tnation.tnation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_thibaudeau/power_building_4_days_workout

DAY 1
A. Back squat
5 sets of 3-5 reps using the double progression method

B. Front squat with heels elevated
3 sets of 6-8 reps using the double progression method
C. Bulgarian split squat
3 sets of 6-8 reps/leg using the double progression method

D1. Leg extension 8-12 reps
D2. Lying leg curl 8-12 reps
D3. Hip thrust (I like kneeling hip thrust with band) 8-12 reps
Done as a circuit 3-4 times

DAY 2
A1. Bench press
5 sets of 3-5 reps using the double progression method
A2 A. Barbell row (I like “chinese row” where your chest is supported on a bench and parallel to the floor)
5 sets of 3-5 reps using the double progression method

B1. Close-grip floor press
3 sets of 6-8 reps using the double progression method
B2. T-bar row or seated cable row
3 sets of 6-8 reps/leg using the double progression method

C. DB incline press
3 sets of 6-8 reps/leg using the double progression method

D1. DB flies or pec deck machine 8-12 reps
D2. DB front raise 8-12 reps
D3. Rope triceps extension 8-12 reps

Done as a circuit 3-4 times

DAY 3
A. Deadlift
5 sets of 3-5 reps using the double progression method

B. Romanian deadlift or goodmorning
3 sets of 6-8 reps using the double progression method

C. Barbell shrugs or snatch-grip high pull from hang
3 sets of 6-8 reps/leg using the double progression method

D1. Back extension 8-12 reps
D2. Lying leg curl 8-12 reps
D3. DB shrugs 8-12 reps
Done as a circuit 3-4 times

DAY 4
A1. Military press or push press
5 sets of 3-5 reps using the double progression method
A2. Chin-ups or lat-pulldown
5 sets of 6-8 reps using the double progression method
B. High incline DB press

3 sets of 6-8 reps using the double progression method
C. Arnold press
3 sets of 6-8 reps/leg using the double progression method
D1. DB laterals raise 8-12 reps
D2. Rear delts machine 8-12 reps
D3. DB front raise 8-12 reps

Done as a circuit 3 times

E1. Straight-arm pulldown 8-12 reps
E2. Preacher curl 8-12 reps
E3. Hammer curl 8-12 reps

Done as a circuit 3 times

I added a “beach muscle” day in there, too.

The two low-calorie days I do low intensity cardio for 30-60 minutes depending on how I feel.

Check out these threads.

http://tnation.tnation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/52_diet_regular_days


#3

[quote]Watchdog wrote:
I’m using this approach as we speak. I lift five times a week using a slightly altered program CT designed: [/quote]

Funny, I did that program a year or so ago when he first posted it. How long have you been on 5/2? What progress are you seeing so far (fat loss per week, strength levels, recovery, etc.)? Thank you.

I’m toying around with my numbers - yes I’m one of those guys who has to count macros to make progress in either fat loss or muscle gain - and I’m thinking of modifying this by just establishing a 20% weekly deficit, spreading out my low calorie deficit-creating days across my 3 non-lifting days. On off days I’d basically do a Lean Gains schedule to get some fasting benefits for insulin sensitizing. These 3 days would start around 1750 cals until I need to reduce further, which isn’t as tough as just jumping right into 800 cals twice a week.


#4

[quote]D.E.N.N.I.S wrote:
TC (or anyone with experience using the 5/2 diet) - Is there any need to alter your training when using this diet, or do the high calories on training days allow for whatever type of training desired?

I asked a similar question in CT’s forum since I follow his training guidance. But I probably should’ve started here even though I don’t know if you (TC) would see my question. Thanks very much.[/quote]

I used a very basic 5/2 for a year and had excellent results the first six months - the last six months less so.

I didn’t alter my training all, just did my fasts on non-training days and trained normally on non-fasting days. No negative effects on either size or performance at all.

What I noticed was that as I got bigger and stronger, the fasts became harder and harder to manage. When I started out I weighed around 185 at around 20% body fat (visual estimate, so big margin for error). I could fast for 12 hours pretty happily. Six or so months in I weighed 195 and had dropped to enough body fat to notice, but the most I could fast was around 10 hours. Twelve months in I weighed around 209 and my body fat was about the same but I could barely manage eight hours of fasting.

I ended up switching to very, very basic carb cycling and around three months ago and I’m now weighing around 214 at perhaps 16% body fat, and my lifts have gone up very well across the board.

So, yes, 5/2 did work for me at the time I started it but I should probably have changed to carb cycling after around six months.


#5

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

[quote]D.E.N.N.I.S wrote:
TC (or anyone with experience using the 5/2 diet) - Is there any need to alter your training when using this diet, or do the high calories on training days allow for whatever type of training desired?

I asked a similar question in CT’s forum since I follow his training guidance. But I probably should’ve started here even though I don’t know if you (TC) would see my question. Thanks very much.[/quote]

I used a very basic 5/2 for a year and had excellent results the first six months - the last six months less so.

I didn’t alter my training all, just did my fasts on non-training days and trained normally on non-fasting days. No negative effects on either size or performance at all.

What I noticed was that as I got bigger and stronger, the fasts became harder and harder to manage. When I started out I weighed around 185 at around 20% body fat (visual estimate, so big margin for error). I could fast for 12 hours pretty happily. Six or so months in I weighed 195 and had dropped to enough body fat to notice, but the most I could fast was around 10 hours. Twelve months in I weighed around 209 and my body fat was about the same but I could barely manage eight hours of fasting.

I ended up switching to very, very basic carb cycling and around three months ago and I’m now weighing around 214 at perhaps 16% body fat, and my lifts have gone up very well across the board.

So, yes, 5/2 did work for me at the time I started it but I should probably have changed to carb cycling after around six months. [/quote]

Thanks for the info, hat’s great progress. Were you fairly untrained to start? And were you tracking your macros or just eating naturally on the 5 days? I would expect the metabolism to adjust to the initial deficit, requiring further caloric reduction to continue fat loss.


#6

[quote]D.E.N.N.I.S wrote:

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

[quote]D.E.N.N.I.S wrote:
TC (or anyone with experience using the 5/2 diet) - Is there any need to alter your training when using this diet, or do the high calories on training days allow for whatever type of training desired?

I asked a similar question in CT’s forum since I follow his training guidance. But I probably should’ve started here even though I don’t know if you (TC) would see my question. Thanks very much.[/quote]

I used a very basic 5/2 for a year and had excellent results the first six months - the last six months less so.

I didn’t alter my training all, just did my fasts on non-training days and trained normally on non-fasting days. No negative effects on either size or performance at all.

What I noticed was that as I got bigger and stronger, the fasts became harder and harder to manage. When I started out I weighed around 185 at around 20% body fat (visual estimate, so big margin for error). I could fast for 12 hours pretty happily. Six or so months in I weighed 195 and had dropped to enough body fat to notice, but the most I could fast was around 10 hours. Twelve months in I weighed around 209 and my body fat was about the same but I could barely manage eight hours of fasting.

I ended up switching to very, very basic carb cycling and around three months ago and I’m now weighing around 214 at perhaps 16% body fat, and my lifts have gone up very well across the board.

So, yes, 5/2 did work for me at the time I started it but I should probably have changed to carb cycling after around six months. [/quote]

Thanks for the info, hat’s great progress. Were you fairly untrained to start? And were you tracking your macros or just eating naturally on the 5 days? I would expect the metabolism to adjust to the initial deficit, requiring further caloric reduction to continue fat loss.
[/quote]

Thanks. I wasn’t untrained, no. I’d been training since mid 2010 and then from early 2012 to mid 2014 i trained and competed I kettlebell sport, and then started the 5/2 around mid 2014 when I transitioned to back to barbell work and then powerlifting.

I didn’t track macros at all. I also was super not picky about what I ate. The most I did was avoid fast good and sweets. I also made an effort to get in more carbs than I used to. I also didn’t really do much on the fasting days to limit calories on either end of the fast.

I only started tracking protein when I started carb cycling.


#7

[quote]D.E.N.N.I.S wrote:
Funny, I did that program a year or so ago when he first posted it. How long have you been on 5/2? What progress are you seeing so far (fat loss per week, strength levels, recovery, etc.)? Thank you.
[/quote]

It’s only been two weeks, so four low-cal days so far. I can’t consistently weigh myself, but I’ve noticed the skin on my stomach is thinner and I am more vascular when relaxed. My lifts are going up. Recovery is fine. I’m coming off a hiatus from lifting and put on some fat which is why I’m doing this plan.

The low calorie days are a bit of a pain, but much more manageable for me than being in a constant deficit. On these days I eat 800 calories as directed, and take in 5 grams of BCAAs 4 hours after breakfast, and 10 grams before my 45-60 minute incline treadmill walk. I eat a gigantic salad of romaine, cucumber, and red cabbage that takes meat least 20 minutes to eat. This helps with the hunger. I try to eat the second meal after the treadmill walking.

I count macros as best as I can on all days. I’m not in control of what’s on the menu right now, but I have ready access to hard boiled eggs, grilled chicken, rice, mashed potatoes, and a salad bar in addition to whatever they decide to cook up. On the normal days I eat a low carb breakfast, include some carbs in my lunch, and an hour pre-workout I have 75 grams of carbs from oatmeal. Post workout is a whey isolate shake with about 35 grams protein. An hour after that I eat two chicken breasts and as much rice or mashed potatoes as I can eat.