T Nation

Tbol Only Cycle / Query


#1

Hi all,

I’m going to run a tbol only cycle. This is my very first cycle, so I’m a bit overwhelmed with information on internet, and am looking for few simple answers (hopefully).

I did not want to complicate things for my first cycle, and wanted something that I could follow very easy.

Week 1 to 7 (7 weeks)
Tbol - 40mg daily (20 in the morning, another 20 in the evening).
AI - Arimidex daily 0.5mg daily
N2 Guard daily for liver protection
HCGenerate daily

Week 8 to 9
Clomid - 40mg daily
HCGenerate daily

Week 10 to 11
Clomid - 20mg daily
HCGenerate daily

Please don’t suggest buying Nolva, I’ve seen for PCT most people using Nolva + Clomid together, but my source did not have Nolva, and I do not know where to get it.

What do you think about this?

Few questions I have.

I’m not sure if I’m prone to gyno, but don’t want to risk it, that’s why I’m running AI from day 1, alongside tbol. Do you think this is a good idea? Should I run it later?

Would you run Arimidex during PCT as well, alongside Clomid? Or it’s not needed here any more?

What dosage would you recommend for Arimidex? Is 0.5mg daily fine?

Did I get the Clomid dosage right? Is 4 weeks enough for this? Or should I go for two more weeks at 10mg daily?

I live in UK, so will struggle to get the blood test done. NHS will not do the necessary blood tests for nothing, and I don’t think I can tell them I need their help cause I’mon steroid cycle :slight_smile:

Please suggest! :slight_smile:

Many thanks all.


#2

By the way, forgot to mention my information.

182cm height (5.97 foot)
74kg (163.14 pound)

By my calculations with the callipers, I’m around 13% BF.
Unfortunately most of this 13% body fat is around my lower abs :slight_smile:

I will be at around 2500 clean calories intake at around 280-240gr protein daily during the cycle and PCT as well.

My goal is a little bit of muscle gain, hopefully 2.5 to 5kg (5 to 10pounds).
And reduction of BF to about 10%.


#3
  1. Oral-only cycles are not optimal
  2. You don’t need an AI; Tbol does not aromatise
  3. N2 Guard will do nothing but cost you money
  4. HCGenerate will do nothing but cost you money
  5. By week four you will want to die because your natural testosterone will be suppressed
  6. If you don’t want a complicated cycle then do the one that every single veteran recommends as a first cycle, i.e. 500mg Test E per week
  7. This will end in tears

#4

In the interest of harm-reduction I will expand on my previous post, which is admittedly a little snarky and perhaps not helpful.

I don’t know how old you are, but if you’re on the younger side then you probably need to really consider what it will be like to suppress your natural hormone production in order to make what will likely be small gains.

Tbol is a great compound and has some good uses. But using it alone will not give you much in the way of lean mass gains. And you will absolutely not gain 5-10lbs on a seven week cycle. The only oral steroid that is going to give you long term keepable gains is Primo. It’s not because Primo is magic, it’s because you can run it for a looooong time. Guys will run low dose test and 150mg Primo ed for a 20 week cycle. Over the course of that time they are slowly building muscle. The longer you have that muscle on you the easier it is to keep in the long term. A seven week cycle isn’t going to give you enough time to pack on true lean mass at the rate that you have stated is your goal. So before you go any further just be aware that your goal as stated here is not going to be met. You will not see 10 new lbs of muscle seven weeks from now.

HCGenerate and N2 Guard are snake oil. The only people who ever talk about their effectiveness are the guys on the forums that are funded by the maker of those supplements. N2 Guard is literally just a bunch of vitamins that you should be getting from a good diet. For $80 you’re buying a multivitamin with a fancy story behind it. Between those two products it looks like you’d spend $140. Do you know how much gear that buys? Or better yet, how much good food?

If you have your heart set in running a cycle then do it the right way. Make it worth your time, your effort, and your money.


#5

Hi iron_yuppie,

Appreciate your input here.

I’ve already purchased tbol, therefore am starting the cycle regardless. 5 to 10lbs should be achievable, at least that’s what the all knowing internet says.

I’m 36, not quite young any more :slight_smile:

I understand your concerns, but at this point it would be more beneficial for me if you could just comment on my questions / re dosage etc.

And I understand that the N2 guard and hcgenerate are just some expensive multivitamin. but I’ll rather have that multivitamin, than maybe not be getting enough from the food. and I’ve already purchased these as well anyway!

Basically everything is already sitting on the table, waiting for me to start the cycle. :slight_smile:

Regards,


#6

So in spite of coming to one of the more knowledgeable pharma forums around and looking for actual advice given it’s your first cycle, you’ll just insist he not comment unless sticking to answering a question that is silly in light of how crap your planned cycle and expectations of it are? You seem hell bent on doing the shit no matter what someone else says, so why bother posting? Save the forum space and just go pop your pills, hopefully it wont jack you up as badly as it very likely can.


#7

Hi @kyle_beach

I’m not sure why you are attacking me, I meant no disrespect for anyone. In fact I’ve thanked @iron_yuppie for his comments, and I am taking some of his advise into consideration.
For example he’s said I do not need AI for tbol, and I have removed from my plan completely.
And I’ll make sure to incorporate his advise into my future cycles, if I ever do more.

But the fact is, I’ve already spent considerable amount of money on these pills, and that’s what I have now, and I am not planning on throwing this money away, so as I said, I’m sticking to my initial plan, but was thinking someone might give me an advise how to get the best out of bad cycle.

So if you’re not going to be helpful, and just came here to attack me, please refrain from answering again. If anyone has any comments and advise on what I have, and can recommend maybe better dosage and with the question I have outlined, then please do answer, I’ll be more than obliged!

As I said again, may thanks @iron_yuppie for your comments, and I’m meaning no disrespect just because I’m not following all of them at this point of time!

Peace,

Regards,


#8

While I will agree that oral-only cycles are not optimal, I will say I have done tbol only cycles multiple times and was happy with what I got (and kept) from each of them. Of the ones I did, only one or two were while I was still ‘natural’, the rest were done while on TRT so suppression was not an issue - that being said, the couple I did prior to TRT, I do not remember having any noticeable issues after stopping the pills.

Don’t bother with the AI, you will just crash your E2 and feel like shit. Seven weeks, you may see as much as a 10 pound gain, but will lose a portion of that after ending the cycle - how much is dependent on multiple factors. Tbol does not cause the water weight gain of dbol, but most of what you gain will still be intracellular fluid rather than actual muscle fibers. If you haven’t used tbol before, you may want to grab some taurine. Tbol gives me wicked back pumps; taurine (up to 10g per day) will help with that to some extent.

This won’t be near as good as the basic cycle the other guy recommended, but you will still get something out of it. Just don’t expect magic.


#9

Thanks a lot @boatguy. Very helpful mate, especially to heart from someone that’s done something similar.

I’ve heard similar things, circa 10lb gains on 7/8 week cycles on tbol. So I’m glad you’re confirming it.

I know my experience can be different, but all in all, I do not think I have unrealistic expectation to what I can gain on this.

I’ll drop AI, as it seems it’s what everyones saying.

What percentage of gains did you keep after the PCT? Did you do proper PCT? Some people even say no PCT is required after tbol only cycle, but I think it’s better to do it to be on the safer side, and for maximum gains.

Regards,


#10

If you are insistent on running the tbol why not add test? Don’t throw away the tbol just get yourself some test to run along side it.


#11

Honestly, don’t recall how much I kept, somewhere in the neighborhood of half?


#12

Because you’re just being stupid. The point of PED and training, and everything we go thru is to RAISE TESTOSTERONE and by doing an oral only cycle, you will interrupt your natural Test production and very likely reduce it significantly.

I know Boatguy did not have adverse issues, but he sounds more like the exception, rather than the rule. You’re playing with fire and seem hellbent on doing it regardless.


#13

@studhammer, would not running test alongside stop natural test production as well?
In fact, are not all steroids, literally all of them, stopping natural test production?

Sorry mate, I just don’t understand how that is different to oral cycle.

I’m being very ignorant to the facts, or I’m not finding appropriate resource to explain this to me correctly.


#14

I’ll agree I may be an exception in that regard. My first cycle was back in 99, thrown together with not near enough research from my buddies’ leftovers after their cycles. Over 5-6 weeks pyramided up to 1000mg/week of sust and 600mg/week of deca (one big shot each week - you ever had golf balls implanted in your ass cheeks? I could feel the lumps every time I sat down) and then just stopped. No AI - don’t even recall reading about those back then. Came off with no support - PCT? What’s that? But almost magically, my test production went back to normal on it’s own with no real issues that I recall - no libido or ED issues, just slowly back to normal. Maybe the different length esters in sust allowed for a ‘natural’ taper, I don’t know.


#15

Yes, while running test your natural product shuts down. But it’s being replaced by exogenous test. If you’re doing an oral only cycle your natural test will be suppressed and you won’t have anything to offset that. That’s the explanation.


#16

I’ve heard that before and always questioned the veracity of that claim. Dianabol was designed originally for androgen replacement (at low dose - 5-10mg/day), and tbol is a 4-chloro derivative of dbol… My thinking is that you wouldn’t see any issues in that area while on, though there is always the possibility of issues once you come off. There have been a couple reports by guys who used low-dose dbol for HRT rather than test injections with apparently great results (again, replacement not cycling). I’m no doctor, but in my (amateur) opinion that old argument doesn’t hold much water - or at least bears further investigation rather than miring in old-school bro-wisdom.

I had no issues any of the times I did tbol only cycles (prior to TRT), nor with various pro hormones for that matter — but YMMV.


#17

I think that you’re probably right, big picture. We can say with some certainty that this oral is more suppressive vs that oral, but I would be inclined to believe that it doesn’t make a huge difference in toto.

That being said, I tend to think about the worst case scenario and then work backwards from there. Hence the aversion to the oral only approach.


#18

Probably not a bad approach when you’re talking about potential health issues.


#19

Hi guys,

Just an update on my results.

Finally I have decided to only go for 4 weeks cycle. Although still oral only tbol.

Results:
Went up to 80kg, which is 6kg of total weight. Out of which, according to the calliper tests before and after the cycle, 1kg of fat.

so finally:
5kg (11 lb) clean muscle mass
1kg (2.2 lb) fat.

I’m on PCT now, second week. Not seeing any decline in strength in the gym, so hopefully will be keeping most if not all of the mass.

Will definitely be doing same cycle again in 2/3 months time.

Regards,


#20

Update us again in a month please.