T Nation

Tbol Cycle

Stats
24
Male
Gyming for 6 years
Have never cycled before
Susceptible to male pattern baldness +acne
74 Kg
1.7m i know, im short :frowning:
13% bodyfat, measured by the machine in the gym. I think this is quite accurate, my vascularity is good, and you can see abs clearly.

Nutrition extremely good. 3 shakes a day, 3 large meals a day. Plenty of water, not overboard though. I also take creatine in a pre workout.

I have access to Oral tbol. I was thinking of starting around a 6 week cycle on 40mg-60mg ed. Followed by pct. Now i have a few questions that i haven’t really been able to find online.

Liver toxicity: is this dependant on the accumulative amount one takes? Or the length of the Tbol cycle. For example, say I take 1000mg of Tbol over 4 weeks compared to 1000mg over 8 weeks, would this have a different impact?

Can you critique my routine.I have three week points: Calves, Bi’s(strong as fuck for my size, but lacking in appearance as well as mass) Chest, didn’t have access to a bench in varsity, weak as well as small, although has seemed to have plateaued as well)

Monday: Bi’s+Tri’s+Calves
Tuesday:Calves+Chest
Wednesday:Abs+Forearms+Shoulders
thursday:Calves+Legs
Friday:Bis+Upper and lower back
Saturday:Chest+calves
Sunday:off

Cardio:Hiit 3 times a week in the evening for MMA.

Thanks guys! Any help will be much appreciated!

Don’t take this the wrong way, but there’s a lot that could be fixed.

At your height, I could see you easily enough gaining 9kg while maintaining the same BF% natty. The question is, if you’re doing MMA, do you really want to gain weight? What’s more important?

The guys are not going to like the cycle you proposed.

If you care about your hair and skin, any kind of AAS is probably a bad idea.

Your training split sucks. Training tris, chest, and shoulders all back-to-back? Training legs and lower back back-to-back?

Haha, no i want honest critque! Thanks for your reply.

I’m really not sure about that, iv really hit a plateau for a long period now. And iv changed routines from low volume, high volume etc.

Thats true, hence the choice of tbol, since apparently it has hardly any sides.

Sorry, that was my proposed training schedule for when i start. How could i better it?

Also, MMA is just a hobby. No future there.

In my opinion, calves should only be done on leg days. There are too many places blood is trying to go to if you are doing arms and calves the same time (or chest I see). Doing calves on leg days makes more sense because the blood is already in your lower body. Yeah it sucks since you are worn out from legs but I have had lots of improvement on both arms and legs by making sure I train them on separate days. If you are set on doing calves that day possibly doing them a few hours later would be something to think about.

Thats a good point. I want to do calves at least three times a week, so going at separate time intervals is a good idea.

Most will shit on an oral-only cycle, I will not. I also don’t have the experience a lot of guys on here do, but still. Guys tend to critique a cycle based on what they hope to get from a cycle, rather than what your goals are, as well as what you have available. If you can get tbol but not other stuff, nothing wrong with taking the plunge.

I have done a 3 week cycle of tbol only at 40mg/day. Saw decent results (about 5 pounds gained and kept) considering the short time on. I have also used 60mg/day in combination with injectables, and saw no added benefit to the extra 20mg (increased the incidence of killer back pumps though). Did my 3 weeker without AI support, and minimal (5 days of 20mg/day Nolva) PCt with no issues. Tbol is very mild (from my experience), though I would still get the support stuff on hand in case you start experiencing sides. That mildness also translates into less gains, but again, depends on what your goals are.

Don’t care for the training split, but I haven’t done a bodypart split in years (been doing 531 for quite a while now, with a complete run of Juggernaut thrown in for the hell of it). Again, depends on your goals.

Any oral is going to be liver toxic, just the way it is. Some are apparently worse than others, I didn’t notice any issues with tbol (but I didn’t run panels so who knows). Best advice I have seen on here is to get Liv-52 or some other broad-spectrum liver support and run it for a few weeks after your cycle.

I have enough tbol to do a 5 week cycle at 40mg/day, which I plan on doing at some point in the future. Don’t know if I’ll order more, since I have been pretty happy with my short injectable cycles. But I definitely liked it. Gave me good gym aggression, without causing any ‘rage’ issues. I’m pretty laid back anyway, so I stay that way on cycle. Loved lifting on tbol, I was cranking through the gym on it. What normally takes about an hour was taking 45 minutes. That aggression actually stayed with me for at least a month after coming off as well.

[quote]LeoHunt wrote:
Haha, no i want honest critque! Thanks for your reply.

I’m really not sure about that, iv really hit a plateau for a long period now. And iv changed routines from low volume, high volume etc.

Thats true, hence the choice of tbol, since apparently it has hardly any sides.

Sorry, that was my proposed training schedule for when i start. How could i better it?
[/quote]

Okay, that’s a good start. A lot of people on here don’t seem to handle honest critique so well, so being open-minded is a really good thing to be, both for lifting and life in general.

I’m just basing what I think you could gain off of what I’ve gained. I’m 89kg at just an inch taller than you.

You say you’ve hit plateaus. What are your numbers like in the Big 3?

@Boatguy 5 pounds, in 3 weeks, that’s impressive. Tbol should arrive today at some point, so hopefully really start feeling it in about a week to 10 days. Thanks for sharing your experience! If tbol is shitty for me i think i will switch to a test e base, combine it with finasteride to try combat the hair loss sides.

@Apok ( I loved the matrix)

I strained my lower back doing squats funny enough and not deadlifts, so i stopped doing 1rm’s about a year ago.

We use the metric system here so everything is in kg, i bench about 110 for 6 reps, 100kg for 8 reps flat bench. Squats are roughly the same about 110 for 6, i think i could pump out 8, but its more of a mind thing. Comparing other guys in the gym, i’m a lot stronger for my size than most, so lately iv actually tried to decrease the weight, and iv been pumping out about 10-12 reps. Has not changed a thing though :confused: !

My Dl is probably the best out of the three at about 180 for about 4-5, i never do more than 5 reps for dl’s though as i’m scared of the widening of the waste.

Iv changed my routine to incorporate what you said. Mon:Bis tri’s, tue:Legs+calves wed: Abs,forearms+shoulders, thur:Bi’s back, friday:chest, sat calves.

89 at 1.72, that’s big. Hows your bf% ?

[quote]LeoHunt wrote:
89 at 1.72, that’s big. Hows your bf% ?[/quote]

Not really sure, actually. Lost my abs, but I look like I lift (or at least that’s what people tell me). Look better than most of the guys in my PL club, not that that says much haha.

Not bad numbers in the bench and deadlift, though I think the squat could come up a lot.

Better number than the average dude in the gym for sure, but I still think you could bring them up a good bit naturally. Well chasing numbers isn’t always the answer to build size, I don’t think trying out some PLing type training would hurt one bit. For me, mixing PL and BB has without a doubt given me the best size gains. Eating a lot helps too. Sometimes I find that it’s really difficult to force down enough clean calories when my schedule is crazy, so I’ll choose dirty cals over no cals if I want to gain. Bottom line: while maybe not the best way to do it, dirty bulking works when you’re at a weight gain plateau.

[quote]LeoHunt wrote:
89 at 1.72, that’s big. Hows your bf% ?[/quote]

No offense to Apokolyps because I love him but how is that considered big? Bigger than you maybe but hell I’m 220ish at 5’6" which is 100kg at 1.67 meters and I am not even close to big. As for body fat I guess 15ish you can find pics here from this month
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_bigger_stronger_leaner/new_to_body_building_due_to_injuries

As for your cycle no offense but I don’t care what any one thinks along these lines but, any one advising you to run a oral only is a idiot. Test or no cycle. Just my two cents listen or don’t.

Okay guys, i need your help again.

Situation: Tbol was out of stock, so i only have 50*10mg tabs. I have proviron in case of any signs of gyno. Also getting Nolva for pct(Not sure if necessary, but just in case).

So i was thinking instead of buying another 100 tabs of tbol, i could buy test E? And the tbol will then be like a kickstarter?

I’m not sure if that will work though, since usually you would take the Test with the tabs. Advice would be good.

Get some DBol and run it 20-30mg a day for 30 days. Run test e 10-12 weeks 500mg a week. DBol 20-30mg a day is not bad at all

Why one would want to shutdown their hpta AND tank their t is beyond me but hey do what you want. Sounds like piss poor planning and laziness to me.

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]LeoHunt wrote:
89 at 1.72, that’s big. Hows your bf% ?[/quote]

No offense to Apokolyps because I love him but how is that considered big? Bigger than you maybe but hell I’m 220ish at 5’6" which is 100kg at 1.67 meters and I am not even close to big. As for body fat I guess 15ish you can find pics here from this month
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_bigger_stronger_leaner/new_to_body_building_due_to_injuries

As for your cycle no offense but I don’t care what any one thinks along these lines but, any one advising you to run a oral only is a idiot. Test or no cycle. Just my two cents listen or don’t.[/quote]

Haha no offense taken big guy. I wouldn’t call you small by any stretch of the imagination though :slight_smile:

Not claiming to be big whatsoever, but just trying to impress upon the OP that there’s definitely some room for him to grow naturally. I know I still have room to grow too, and to be honest, I’m thankful as hell for that because it means I can put off the decision about whether to start AAS or not.

The more I read about AAS the more I’ve come to realize that it’s not something you do a few times and walk away happy with the results. It’s a lifelong commitment, and one that (while the health risks may be overstated) isn’t benign. Definitely not a decision to make lightly.