Tax Cuts: Good or Nah?

And regrettably…like so much of the Country…they are knee-deep in the grips of an Opioid Epidemic that they can ill afford…(as if anyone can, really…)

And that’s just it. West Virginia seems to be a “microcosm of despair” in many ways. The coal industry employs a shockingly low number of people overall (the solar industry dwarfs it completely), yet it’s a major talking point of a presidential election.

It’s because a state like WV is so single-threaded, the entire state is absolutely decimated when the coal industry takes a nosedive, as it wipes out entire towns (the opioid epidemic ties directly into that). You could have a disruption in a major metropolitan area that impacts three times as many people, but you’d never hear a presidential candidate talking about it.

1 Like

Sure it does. Because “them” is the people who get to control the country is way 1000x excess than the rest of us. It boils down to that for me to, except I know who “them” is when I say it.

Unfortunately this isn’t likely to change without major govt intervention. Companies simply don’t want to be in WV. There’s zero incentive for the vast majority of industries.

Oh right. The rules of debate hinge upon sincerity. Like if someone makes an assertion they don’t have to back it up with any proof if the other person sincerely wants it. Then it becomes incumbent upon the person questioning the statement to find proof.

No need to belabor further.

In the interest of honesty though- I have seen his campaign speeches, and he did say a lot of nebulous things that could be interpreted by the audience to mean what ever they were most interested in/irate about. Reducing taxes, removing job killing regulations, breathing new life, etc.

Then he made good on them.

2 Likes

Except he sold them as cures to what ails them. How does lower corp taxes or lower personal taxes for the rich help WV and bring jobs back? They didn’t lose jobs due to “high” taxes. Hell even after sweeping regulation removal we’re up like 1300 miner jobs in the entire country.

Even ignoring WV’s low population that shakes out to what? Like 100 jobs if you split it between the states that mine coal? All these regs that “killed” CLEEEEEAN coal vanishing overnight and WV gets 100 jobs.

My family down there is absolutely just as fucked now re: working as they were when the regs were in place. All those changes don’t touch on just how unattractive WV is to run a business of any decent scale.

I know. Its a logistical nightmare. You aren’t going anywhere with anything without building a massive bridge and/or winding through roads cut into cliffs in the bottom of a hollow (used to camp down at seneca rocks).

Thats the shitty thing about regulating the primary industry of an entire state or region out of existence. Maybe the tree huggers should have thought of that before they choked the life out of so many people. Now they are literally mortally fucked.

Just my opinion, but I really do think that urban blue dems do not think that “people like that” have a right to live. All of that derision and hatred on display in many of the popular lib rags was directed at the people in your family (and mine).

1 Like

Except that’s not what happened. Competition from natural gas is the main driver of coal’s decline. It was the free market at work.

2 Likes

The sad thing is that this has been stated repeatedly, even by the coal industry, yet people still don’t understand this.

Yes and no. @ CA’s high tax rates were not as painful before. It’s complicated.

For sure CA will have to do something to address their tax structure. Agree. Things just got a lot more painful for states that were SALT states.

To the thread. Prepare for CA rant.

We were talking about companies and people migrating OUT of CA. Look at Apple, for example. They are based in Cupertino, but Apple uses Braeburn Capital, based in Reno, Nevada to manage and invest their cash outside the state. CA’s corporate rate is 8.84 percent. Nevada’s corporate rate ZERO. That’s not so say that CA doesn’t benefit HUGE from the tech industry. It’s something like $235 Billion dollars between San Jose, Santa Clara and Sunnyville. Larger than the GDP of a lot of countries. BUT, when you look at the CA state taxes, Apple will include state taxes paid by it’s employees in that number.

Also, CA has a bunch of other practices that are causing businesses to leave. Workman’s Comp is not technically a tax, it’s a mandatory insurance. NOT surprisingly, California has the highest and therefore the worst rates in the nation. And worst by a significant amount. California rates average 21.3% higher than the second highest state (Connecticut). California rates are 188% of the median state.

I could go on and on about why businesses and people with money have been migrating OUT of CA.

California’s 2016 “business tax climate” ranks 3rd worst in the nation – behind Blue New York and Blue New Jersey. In addition, CA has a lock on the worst rank in the 2016 Small Business Tax Index – 7 TIMES worse than the best small business state (South Dakota).

From 2007 through 2010, 10,763 manufacturing facilities were built or expanded across the country — but only 176 of those were in CA. So with roughly 12% of the nation’s population, CA got 1.6% of the built or expanded manufacturing facilities. Stated differently, adjusted for population, the other 49 states averaged 8.4 times more manufacturing growth than did California.

The top U.S. CEO’s surveyed rank California “the worst state in which to do business” for the 12th straight year (May, 2016).

The American Tort Reform Foundation in 2015 again ranks CA the “worst state judicial hellhole” in U.S. – the most anti-business. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce ranks CA a bit better – “only” the 4th worst state in 2015 (unfortunately, sliding from 7th worst in 2008).

California ranks 48th worst for credit card debt and 49th worst for percentage of home ownership, which gives you an idea of how hard it is for working class families to make it here. They are also migrating OUT of CA because of stats like this. “The median Texas household income is 13.5% less than CA. But adjusted for cost of living, TX 2015 median household income is 29.3% more than CA.”

California is now ranked as the 3rd worst state to retire in by Kiplinger.

Remember all the wonderful things in CA? First class colleges like the UCs Stanford, Caltech? The tech industry, entertainment industry, beaches and gorgeous weather?

Hard to imagine what it could be SO poorly managed. California has the 2nd lowest credit rating (bond ranking) of any state. We’re barely edging out the Tire Fire that is Illinois, with the LOWEST bond ranking. It’s one budget crisis after another for BLUE CA, with it’s amazing economy.

Infographic: S&P State Credit Ratings, 2001–2014 | The Pew Charitable Trusts

Info on CA attributed mostly to Richard Rider’s Blog here. Quoted and paraphrased above.

2 Likes

We’ve been down this road before. You have a popular and well publicized version, and I have one from being there.

As long as you can somehow rectify that the president who declared war on the coal industry (quite proudly) did not do what he said he would, we have nothing to say to each other.

1 Like

The fact that you would form that opinion is a sign of the problem. And don’t think it doesn’t have a flip side. Terms like “libtard” aren’t exactly a sign of the other side’s virtuousness. These opinions that people have of the other side are based on a vanity, self-righteousness and a persecution complex. It’s fed to people like that by certain media outlets and individuals who make money off creating division, an us and them environment.

The truth is most people in urban areas do care about people, regardless of where they live. Many people who live in urban areas or who have white collar jobs came from working class families so they do sympathize.

1 Like

Like I said to Tyler, we’re done.

Good, because ignorance should be stifled.

And yet you persist…

And, so do you…

It seems miners expect to get $60k jobs right out of high school indefinitely.

1 Like

Stop it with the facts.

Besides, Trump will just try to raise natural gas prices to help coal.

I think this is the stretch to end all stretches. Both sides have a strong disdain for people who do not come to the same conclusion as them on issues like the environment, economy, abortion, etc. To act as if a large part of those people don’t want someone to live is probably not true.

But the GOP needs to look in the mirror if this is the kind of things they think. I bet you can find a strong amount of Republicans who think minorities are a massive problem and we would be better off without them. It’s a side that labels people takers and actively fights against affordable health care or access to health care for children as not my problem.

Which oddly enough those takers and people who are vilified with comments like the 47% who don’t pay taxes are largely found in overall red states.

Nah. It took my brother in law about 5 years to hit the 60K mark. When I did my red hat cert. the starting wage at one of the top paying companies in the industry was $21.50.

edit: On the other hand, one of the largest employers in the region, GMS, pays about half that.

How much would you like to do the same?

They are hiring again too. Their specialty is vent shafts for expansions and new portal openings.

There is just so much you don’t know, and what a whole fact is-is part of it.

Interestingly enough, my sister was on the strategic planning and industry development board for one of the major players in the shale gas industry, and if you knew what was coming once the gas market is completely developed, you wouldn’t be so cocky with your second statement.