[quote]pat36 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Stronger citizen review of police action is the solution.
Abso-fucking-lutely.
Actually, having a citizen review would be a good start and then it needs to be strong.
[/quote]
Agree as well.
Ideally citizenry should police themselves. I am not convinced a standing paid police force is necessary in most areas of the country.
Under the suggested scenario, who thinks we’d have anyone worth a damn even apply to a police force?
It’s amazing you would even suggest this given the dangers law enforcement face on a near daily basis.
What would even be the point of having an officer at all, if all they could do in an emergency was call for armed back up?
They already have people who could try to enforce the law without any way of backing it up…the general public.
[quote]fraggle wrote:
They already have people who could try to enforce the law without any way of backing it up…the general public.
[/quote]
Ding. Ding. Ding. Absolutely.
Who policed whom before the creation of the blessed State? Could it still work?
[quote]lucasa wrote:
Police strong-arming citizens is a symptom of the liberal diseases; police state and nanny gov’t.[/quote]
As long as you define liberal in the new sense I agree with this statement. Classic liberalism is about minding one’s own business and taking responsibility for one’s own actions. This has not been a commonplace ideal in the last 5 decades. We’ve lost our way.
We have forgotten that life offers no guarantees about safety and security. The State can’t promise anyone safety. All they can offer are coercive solutions at taxpayer expense.
Sure it’s nice to be able to reliably pick up the phone and dial 911 but is it the only solution to a free and prosperous nation?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Blasphemy wrote:
Most police forces are understaffed as it is. And most taxpayers aren’t willing to devote more funds to them for this safety precaution you suggest.
All the better.
Do you honestly feel safer with more cops?[/quote]
The issue isn’t whether or not I feel safe with more or less cops. Please reply to my other posts and situation with your solution.
TASERs don’t Tase people, people do…
“Don’t TASE me bro!”
[quote]Blasphemy wrote:
If you cooperate with the police and aren’t a criminal then you won’t have any problems. I’m not saying some police officers don’t have egos either. [/quote]
What if I am not a criminal and I still do not want to cooperate with them? Do they have a right to forcefully coerce my cooperation?
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
“Don’t TASE me bro!”[/quote]
Correction: TASERs don’t Tase people, dirty, rotten, jack-booted cops do…
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Blasphemy wrote:
If you cooperate with the police and aren’t a criminal then you won’t have any problems. I’m not saying some police officers don’t have egos either.
What if I am not a criminal and I still do not want to cooperate with them? Do they have a right to forcefully coerce my cooperation?[/quote]
Your going off on unrelated tangents. No one said you have to obey police like a lapdog to his master. And I would like to know a situation in when this would be the case. And please respond to my other posts. I would like to know what you think.
I’d much rather be tasered than shot or hit with a billy club.
[quote]Blasphemy wrote:
And I would like to know a situation in when this would be the case.[/quote]
I was standing in a building with my gym bag slung over my shoulder waiting for my wife to arrive and I had two cops approach me because I appeared “suspicious”. They asked me to move away from the doors and have seat on a bench that was 20 yards away.
I asked them under what authority they gave me those orders and asked what their suspicions were. They ignored my questions and instead proceeded to ask me questions about my business. I declined answering them telling them it was none of their business and did not wish to sit in their presence. I am not blatantly rude, but on the contrarty, I am forthright about my rights and their duty as police.
They then proceeded to threaten me with arrest for disorderly conduct. I bluffed, pointing to all the security cameras ensuring them a lawyer somewhere needed more work. I ensured them I was peacefully waiting for someone and that is all they “need to know.” Imagine if I had not been as cool and collected and accidentally gave them reason to pull out their tasers or worse.
Cops are mostly unnecessary to keep the peace – they arrive a day late and a dollar short on every occasion. I am not violent nor a criminal yet I have had more dealings with police for merely standing in one place for too long than should be necessary. Apparently, loitering is enough probabe cause to incite police brutality.
[quote]doogie wrote:
I’d much rather be tasered than shot or hit with a billy club.[/quote]
Sure…hopefully you still have all your faculties when they get done tasering you.
I’d rather just be left alone.
[quote]Blasphemy wrote:
And if the person had a partner in the car watching him, what in fact could this person do?[/quote]
Prevent a get away. No one would attempt to kill a police officer if they knew they wouldn’t get away.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
fraggle wrote:
They already have people who could try to enforce the law without any way of backing it up…the general public.
Ding. Ding. Ding. Absolutely.
Who policed whom before the creation of the blessed State? Could it still work?[/quote]
If by work you mean as well as it did in the past. However, in the past, there were a lot of race, religious, and clan based alliances, which would pretty much screw anyone who was an outsider. With the melting pot that is most of the developed world, there would be a hell of a lot of conflict without a somewhat impartial 3rd party overseeing things.
I know that police aren’t perfect, but without them, I pretty sure we’d end up with a local version of what they have in the tribal areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
I can admit this could work in select communities, but I have yet to live in a place where it would.
Maybe I’m just cynical, but people are subject to way too many quirks and flaws to ever allow them to enforce themselves.
I wish criminals were rational. And you give a great example of two asshole cops, as I said before some of them have ego issues. But you are saying that we would all be safer if there were no police? So I assume you are suggesting a wild west type of situation where everyone is armed and ready to kill on a moments notice.
[quote]Blasphemy wrote:
But you are saying that we would all be safer if there were no police? So I assume you are suggesting a wild west type of situation where everyone is armed and ready to kill on a moments notice. [/quote]
Philosophically speaking, yes I believe people are capable of policing themselves. In that respect everyone are the police of their own lives and property. There are some assumptions that need to be addressed, however.
the majority of people are capable of moral behavior.
the majority of people also recognize the necessity of cooperation in society
there is no such thing as a deterrent to motivated individuals who want something bad enough
I do not believe the west was all that “wild” or there never would have been migration there to begin with. Early Americans recognized and operated under the above assumptions and they prospered.
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS,
I just stunbled onto this thread, and I have to tell you, that your ignorance is making my head swim. First, “beat cops” respond to calls as part and parcel to their job function. Second, without enforcement of the laws, we have a lawless state. Also, I’m betting that you’ve never had to patrol and arrest anyone, ever, have you?
More later, I gotta get going.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Arc_1mpuls3 wrote:
Oh, in case you were wondering, without armed public servants, the strong would steal everything you owned.
JeffR
[/quote]
Becuase in every oher country that does NOT use armed regular police everyone is being raped and pilliged daily by nasty criminals with guns
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
JeffR wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Arc_1mpuls3 wrote:
Oh, in case you were wondering, without armed public servants, the strong would steal everything you owned.
JeffR
Becuase in every oher country that does NOT use armed regular police everyone is being raped and pilliged daily by nasty criminals with guns
[/quote]
It is because we have a 2nd amendment that the police force should be armed.
I’d rather arm the cops than disarm the citizenry.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
First, “beat cops” respond to calls as part and parcel to their job function. Second, without enforcement of the laws, we have a lawless state. Also, I’m betting that you’ve never had to patrol and arrest anyone, ever, have you?
[/quote]
I am not suggesting there wouldn’t be lawlessness, in general, with out enforcement of the law. I understand that is a function of society. I dispute who in society is best equipped to handle this task. I dispute the idea of allowing an all powerful institution like the “government” carry weapons when enforcing the law because they have no legal competition and thus no real check on their authority.