Targeting Girls School

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]John S. wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
John S. wrote:
He was making an analogy. What have you done to serve your country(NOTHING). where as he has served and I’m serving soon, do something or shut up.

I’m sorry, I didn’t realize this forum followed fascist rules, where only current and former military are allowed to speak. I admire PGJ’s service, but that doesn’t make him infallible.

And no offense, good luck to you, but until you’re actually in uniform you’re not in the same position as someone who is an active duty Marine.

I wasn’t I was just showing that I am going to go do something and he has already done something to help the situation, while you do nothing but bitch.[/quote]

How do you know?

Maybe you help make things worse?

22

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

Real heroes, these freedom fighters. Anyone know exactly how slaughtering hundreds of little girls in cold blood has anything to do with lashing out against their “oppressors”?

Me neither.

orion wrote:
So ham-handed occupations bring out the worst in people…

Who knew?
[/quote]

Orion has this one nailed. There’s no way muslim extremists would ever blow up a school full of little girls if America wasn’t sticking it’s big fat nose where it doesn’t belong. It’s against their religion. Probably.

23

[quote]orion wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:

Real heroes, these freedom fighters. Anyone know exactly how slaughtering hundreds of little girls in cold blood has anything to do with lashing out against their “oppressors”?

Me neither.

So ham-handed occupations bring out the worst in people…

Who knew?
[/quote]

The Shia and Sunni wouldn’t hate each other if it wasn’t for the US…who knew? I’m sure they would embrace the education of women too…just like in Afganistan.

24

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Yet, there are those that somehow believe there will be less bloodshed if the US leaves. Sure, I suppose so, in the long run. Meaning, once the sectarian Islamists have killed enough people to impose their totalitarian brand of Islam, I suppose violence will die down.

In the meantime, various factions will fight it out to determine if a little girl is entitled to an education. But yeah, the US is the evil bastards in Iraq…

Well, since you seem to support direct benevolence so much, you wouldn’t mind free national health care, would ya?

We’re not evil bastards. I don’t want out because it’s wrong to be there, even though I think it was wrong to go in the first place, I want out because American blood is being spilled for a war I do not think we can “win”.

WTF do you mean “I want out”? WHAT THE FUCK have you done? Who cares if YOU don’t think we can win? Who are your military advisors? Let me guess…CNN, moveon.org, NYT, and NPR. Outstanding. You would have pulled out of Germany after the Battle of the Buldge and would have left Japan alone after they captured the Phillipines.

Judging by your repeated invocation of tiresome World War II analogies, I question whether your understanding of this war is much greater than that of the “MSM” you attack.[/quote]

My WWII analogies are an attempt to compare todays “war” with warfare in recent history. Those who cry about today’s torture (sleep deprivation, exposure to cold, nude stacking, barking dogs) to torture suffered by Americans in the past (starvation, severe beatings, mass executions, beheadings, forcing prisoners to kill each other, skinning alive, being set on fire…). Also, those who cry about the loss of life need to have a broader perspective on casualties in other wars. 400,000 in WWII, about 50,000 in Korea, about 60,000 in Vietnam. War is a necessary evil because sometimes irrational dictators do not respond to political pressure.

We haven’t carpet bombed any town in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Some of you guys just want to ignore the problem instead of making tough decisions. That is weak. That is not leadership. A leader doesn’t take a poll before making decisions.

25

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
John S. wrote:
He was making an analogy. What have you done to serve your country(NOTHING). where as he has served and I’m serving soon, do something or shut up.

I’m sorry, I didn’t realize this forum followed fascist rules, where only current and former military are allowed to speak. I admire PGJ’s service, but that doesn’t make him infallible.

And no offense, good luck to you, but until you’re actually in uniform you’re not in the same position as someone who is an active duty Marine.[/quote]

No, Beowulf said “I want out of Iraq”, so I asked him what he meant by “I”, knowing he has absolutely nothing to do with the military. Nothing Fascist about it.

26

[quote]hedo wrote:
orion wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:

Real heroes, these freedom fighters. Anyone know exactly how slaughtering hundreds of little girls in cold blood has anything to do with lashing out against their “oppressors”?

Me neither.

So ham-handed occupations bring out the worst in people…

Who knew?

The Shia and Sunni wouldn’t hate each other if it wasn’t for the US…who knew? I’m sure they would embrace the education of women too…just like in Afganistan.

[/quote]

They would hate each other.

Quietly.

Ruled by Saddams iron fist.

The Iraquis actually did embrace the education of women. One of the few secular countries in that region.

Whoever wins this, half of all Iraquis, the women, have lost.

27

[quote]Cunnivore wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:

Real heroes, these freedom fighters. Anyone know exactly how slaughtering hundreds of little girls in cold blood has anything to do with lashing out against their “oppressors”?

Me neither.

orion wrote:
So ham-handed occupations bring out the worst in people…

Who knew?

Orion has this one nailed. There’s no way muslim extremists would ever blow up a school full of little girls if America wasn’t sticking it’s big fat nose where it doesn’t belong. It’s against their religion. Probably.
[/quote]

How do you know they are muslim extremists?

If they are ex-Baath Sunnis they are probably not fighting for a Califate but against it.

Not every Marine killing an Iraqui does it for Christendom, why should they be different?

28

[quote]orion wrote:
Cunnivore wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:

Real heroes, these freedom fighters. Anyone know exactly how slaughtering hundreds of little girls in cold blood has anything to do with lashing out against their “oppressors”?

Me neither.

orion wrote:
So ham-handed occupations bring out the worst in people…

Who knew?

Orion has this one nailed. There’s no way muslim extremists would ever blow up a school full of little girls if America wasn’t sticking it’s big fat nose where it doesn’t belong. It’s against their religion. Probably.

How do you know they are muslim extremists?

If they are ex-Baath Sunnis they are probably not fighting for a Califate but against it.

Not every Marine killing an Iraqui does it for Christendom, why should they be different? [/quote]

I don’t know maybe because they call it Jihad? I believe that is arabic for Holy War.

I think the targeting of civilians and particularly children is dispicable and as far as I am concerned there is no hell hot enough for those bastards. These freedom fighters embody evil to it’s very core.

Here’s the irony that seems to escape most people. If these freedom fighters would have just knocked it off and let Saddam fall and allow the rebuilding process to go through uninhibated, we would have been long gone. They are proloning U.S. involvement by being violent which leads me to the conclusion that they want us there. It serves there purpose and gets them to their 72 big fat hairy male vigins who will spend an eternity gang raping them; hopefully.

Again, for the record, I don’t believe we should have ever went there or started a war with them. We should have concentrated fully on Afghanistan and leveled all traces of al kaduh and the tali-spankers. Iraq as it was, could have been usful to us.

29

[quote]pat36 wrote:
orion wrote:
Cunnivore wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:

Real heroes, these freedom fighters. Anyone know exactly how slaughtering hundreds of little girls in cold blood has anything to do with lashing out against their “oppressors”?

Me neither.

orion wrote:
So ham-handed occupations bring out the worst in people…

Who knew?

Orion has this one nailed. There’s no way muslim extremists would ever blow up a school full of little girls if America wasn’t sticking it’s big fat nose where it doesn’t belong. It’s against their religion. Probably.

How do you know they are muslim extremists?

If they are ex-Baath Sunnis they are probably not fighting for a Califate but against it.

Not every Marine killing an Iraqui does it for Christendom, why should they be different?

I don’t know maybe because they call it Jihad? I believe that is arabic for Holy War.

I think the targeting of civilians and particularly children is dispicable and as far as I am concerned there is no hell hot enough for those bastards. These freedom fighters embody evil to it’s very core.

Here’s the irony that seems to escape most people. If these freedom fighters would have just knocked it off and let Saddam fall and allow the rebuilding process to go through uninhibated, we would have been long gone. They are proloning U.S. involvement by being violent which leads me to the conclusion that they want us there. It serves there purpose and gets them to their 72 big fat hairy male vigins who will spend an eternity gang raping them; hopefully.

Again, for the record, I don’t believe we should have ever went there or started a war with them. We should have concentrated fully on Afghanistan and leveled all traces of al kaduh and the tali-spankers. Iraq as it was, could have been usful to us.
[/quote]

Some of them call it Jihad, some of them don`t and some call it that and do not believe a word of it.

They do not only want you gone, they want power. It is a turf war and the criminal organisation that gets to win it, gets to call itself a government and governments were never shy when it came to killing to establish power.

See it as a giant Waco, Texas.

30

[quote]PGJ wrote:
…

Some of you guys just want to ignore the problem instead of making tough decisions. That is weak. That is not leadership. A leader doesn’t take a poll before making decisions.

[/quote]

We can ignore Islamic extremism or we can oppose it. I vote oppose.

31

[quote]orion wrote:
Some of them call it Jihad, some of them don`t and some call it that and do not believe a word of it.
[/quote]

I am not saying your wrong, I just haven’t heard a single peep refering to the insurgency as mulifaceted as it is, as anything else other than a Holy endevour to kill the infidel. Do you have any text that would show there is any secular based violence in Iraq?

32

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Yes, we all get it. They’re worse than we are. By far. Very few are disagreeing with that.

Just don’t try to make this into an argument for why we’re the supermen of the world, always in the moral right, just because they’re “worse”.

They suck, we’re better. We’re pretty good, we can be better. They should be better, we must be better.[/quote]

The United States is the most moral country on the planet. We are better simply because of this.

33

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
PGJ wrote:
…

Some of you guys just want to ignore the problem instead of making tough decisions. That is weak. That is not leadership. A leader doesn’t take a poll before making decisions.

We can ignore Islamic extremism or we can oppose it. I vote oppose.[/quote]

You can’t even ignore it. It’s like having a hornets nest or rattlesnakes in your house. It will be OK for a little bit, and you can even choose to avoid the problem…but eventually you will get stung or bitten.

These are not peaceful people. How many times do we have to be attacked, how many planes have to be hijacked, how many buildings have to be destroyed, and how many marketplaces need to be blown up before people realize that terrorism needs to dealt with harshly and swiftly?

This shit goes back to the 1700’s, maybe even further. Barbary pirates of north Africa.

34

[quote]pat36 wrote:
orion wrote:
Some of them call it Jihad, some of them don`t and some call it that and do not believe a word of it.

I am not saying your wrong, I just haven’t heard a single peep refering to the insurgency as mulifaceted as it is, as anything else other than a Holy endevour to kill the infidel. Do you have any text that would show there is any secular based violence in Iraq?[/quote]

That is a great question. The answer is NO. There is no “secular” in Islamic society. These guys chant “Allah Akbar” as they blow up public places and saw off people’s heads. Converting to a religion other than Islam is still punishable by death. The society is totally centerd on Islam.

35

[quote]PGJ wrote:
WTF do you mean “I want out”? WHAT THE FUCK have you done? Who cares if YOU don’t think we can win? Who are your military advisors? Let me guess…CNN, moveon.org, NYT, and NPR. Outstanding. You would have pulled out of Germany after the Battle of the Buldge and would have left Japan alone after they captured the Phillipines.

[/quote]
Please tell us your experience “over there” that gives your opinion more credence. We get it–you are a MARINE. Big deal. Please tell us your rank, MOS, and time spent with boots on the ground in an Iraq combat zone. Your opinion is shit until then.

36

[quote]pat36 wrote:
I don’t know maybe because they call it Jihad? I believe that is arabic for Holy War.
[/quote]
This statement is exactly what is wrong with the western perception of Islam.

Jihad is Arabic for, to struggle in the way of God. Jihad is considered, unofficially, the sixth pillar of Islam and is loosely translated by all sects of Islam. As a point of contention to your statement I offer this by the Prophet Muhammad.

“Holy is the warrior who wrestles (“struggles”) with himself.”

37

[quote]beowolf wrote:

In fact, I was all for kicking ass and taking names in Afghanistan to kick the shit out of the Taliban. And if things keep going in the direction they seem to be going, I might end up being for a war with Iran, depending on whether or not they develop nuclear capability and threaten to use it one Israel. I’m am by no means a pacifist.
[/quote]

Beowolf,

This is where democratic logic gets murky to me.

If the goal is to kill al qaeda, it seems to me that we should all be in aggreement with staying in Iraq.

We know that Iraq is the central front of the War on Terror. al qaeda has broadcast this fact.

If you are for killing taliban for supporting al qaeda, then it follows you should be for killing al qaeda in Iraq.

Again, the logic escapes me here. For the sake of argument, let’s accept every looney theory about going in to Iraq (kickbacks for cheney, reelection, personal vendetta, Bush thinks it’s cool, etc…) it still doesnt justify pulling out when the enemy is there.

The only thing I can think of, is that people want so badly to punish any idea associated with Bush, that they would rather he lose any undertaking than deal with the larger issue.

One cannot in good faith say, “Well, if we leave, everything will be ok.”

It won’t. It would be a monumental victory for the forces of darkness.

I think that the Americans should plan on eventually pulling back to regional bases. Withdraw most of the manpower. But, be available for some heavy hitting. Further, act as a deterrant to iran.

As long as the Iraqi’s ask for and allow us to maintain these regional bases, I say we stay. See Japan and other areas of our vital national interest.

Friends, leaving Iraq altogether would be an enormous error. Bush isn’t the best person to persuade doubters. However, I think he’s quite correct.

JeffR

38

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Yes, we all get it. They’re worse than we are. By far. Very few are disagreeing with that.

Just don’t try to make this into an argument for why we’re the supermen of the world, always in the moral right, just because they’re “worse”.

They suck, we’re better. We’re pretty good, we can be better. They should be better, we must be better.[/quote]

This is an excellent post.

However, I don’t think Thunder is responding to you.

We have guys like lixy and orion who actually think that the terrorists blowing up a school is justified by our invasion.

This nonsense must be confronted and slapped down.

JeffR

39

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

As a point of contention to your statement I offer this by the Prophet Muhammad.

“Holy is the warrior who wrestles (“struggles”) with himself.”[/quote]

As a point of contention to your statement, was that before, during, or after his conquest of Mecca?

40

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
pat36 wrote:
I don’t know maybe because they call it Jihad? I believe that is arabic for Holy War.

This statement is exactly what is wrong with the western perception of Islam.

Jihad is Arabic for, to struggle in the way of God. Jihad is considered, unofficially, the sixth pillar of Islam and is loosely translated by all sects of Islam. As a point of contention to your statement I offer this by the Prophet Muhammad.

“Holy is the warrior who wrestles (“struggles”) with himself.”[/quote]

I stand corrected…
However, the western perception of Islam has nothing to do with it. I do not have to be well versed in the Koran to see bombs going off, suicide bombers running around, violence through out the middle east claimed in the name of God and Islam.

The radical element in Islam is a cancer the that larger body of Islam has at best taken asprin to control. As we know cancer affects the whole body and until Greater Islam chooses to get chemotharapy, then the rest of the 4.8 billion people in the world will continue to view a less than favorable view of it.