T Nation

Targeting Girls School

Hmm - while American troops try to avoid civilian casualties, Iraqi “freedom fighters” are trying to blow up a girls’ school:

[i]American soldiers discovered a girls school being built north of Baghdad had become an explosives-rigged “death trap,” the U.S. military said Thursday.

The plot at the Huda Girls’ school in Tarmiya was a “sophisticated and premeditated attempt to inflict massive casualties on our most innocent victims,” military spokesman Maj. Gen. William Caldwell said.

The military suspects the plot was the work of al Qaeda, because of its nature and sophistication, Caldwell said in an interview with CNN’s Wolf Blitzer.

The plot was uncovered Saturday, when troopers in the Salaheddin province found detonating wire across the street from the school. They picked up the wire and followed its trail, which led to the school. Once inside, they found an explosive-filled propane tank buried beneath the floor. There were artillery shells built into the ceiling and floor, and another propane tank was found, the military said.

The wire was concealed with mortar and concrete, and the propane tanks had been covered with brick and hidden underneath the floor, according to a military statement. Soldiers were able to clear the building.

“It was truly just an incredibly ugly, dirty kind of vicious killing that would have gone on here,” Caldwell said.

Iraqi contractors were responsible for building the school, which was intended to bring in hundreds of girls.

“Given the care and work put into emplacing this IED, it is likely it had been planned for a long time” and it is thought that “the IED was not intended to be set off until the building was occupied,” the military said.

Authorities intend to question the Iraqis involved in the school’s construction.[/i]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/03/iraq.school.bomb/index.html

Real heroes, these freedom fighters. Anyone know exactly how slaughtering hundreds of little girls in cold blood has anything to do with lashing out against their “oppressors”?

Me neither.

Yes, we all get it. They’re worse than we are. By far. Very few are disagreeing with that.

Just don’t try to make this into an argument for why we’re the supermen of the world, always in the moral right, just because they’re “worse”.

They suck, we’re better. We’re pretty good, we can be better. They should be better, we must be better.

Yet, there are those that somehow believe there will be less bloodshed if the US leaves. Sure, I suppose so, in the long run. Meaning, once the sectarian Islamists have killed enough people to impose their totalitarian brand of Islam, I suppose violence will die down.

In the meantime, various factions will fight it out to determine if a little girl is entitled to an education. But yeah, the US is the evil bastards in Iraq…

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Yet, there are those that somehow believe there will be less bloodshed if the US leaves. Sure, I suppose so, in the long run. Meaning, once the sectarian Islamists have killed enough people to impose their totalitarian brand of Islam, I suppose violence will die down.

In the meantime, various factions will fight it out to determine if a little girl is entitled to an education. But yeah, the US is the evil bastards in Iraq…[/quote]

Well, since you seem to support direct benevolence so much, you wouldn’t mind free national health care, would ya?

We’re not evil bastards. I don’t want out because it’s wrong to be there, even though I think it was wrong to go in the first place, I want out because American blood is being spilled for a war I do not think we can “win”.

Actually are war is over, we set up the democracy we overthrew sadam, we won.

What we are doing right now is an occupation till there government can protect themselves, and there getting there.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Yes, we all get it. They’re worse than we are. By far. Very few are disagreeing with that.

Just don’t try to make this into an argument for why we’re the supermen of the world, always in the moral right, just because they’re “worse”.

They suck, we’re better. We’re pretty good, we can be better. They should be better, we must be better.[/quote]

Beowolf, what exactly is your military background? Explain how our troops could be doing better. Let me tell you, they are the best in the world, maybe the best ever. They are fucking supermen. They deal with shit you only simulate on XBox. This is the most humane, bloodless war of all time. 3,000 dead in 4 years? Shit, we lost twice that many Marines in 3 months on Iwo Jima. We killed more Japanese by firebombing Tokyo than we killed by dropping the A-Bombs. YOU have no historical perspective of war.

You need to realize that we are fighting evil people who would blow up your kids elementary school if they could (and they already did in Russia). That is not exageration. Let me guess, you think this should be a police matter.

What is your definition of “better”?

[quote]John S. wrote:
Actually are war is over, we set up the democracy we overthrew sadam, we won.

What we are doing right now is an occupation till there government can protect themselves, and there getting there.[/quote]

Factually and grammatically, there is so much wrong with this I’m having trouble finding a place to begin.

First of all, it’s “our” not “are”. ‘Saddam’, not ‘sadam’, and ‘their’ not ‘there’.

Second, the war isn’t over. Period. Even if this was a satirical statement (you really didn’t make it clear if it was or not), they are NOT “getting there”. When we see a drastic (read: doubling) increase of the Iraqi police force, I’ll be convinced they’re making a credible attempt at democracy that can survive without us one day.

What we should do, is ask them to hold a referendum as to whether they’d like us to stay or not. Either they want our help, or they don’t. A direct vote by the people to see whether or not we should stay.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Yet, there are those that somehow believe there will be less bloodshed if the US leaves. Sure, I suppose so, in the long run. Meaning, once the sectarian Islamists have killed enough people to impose their totalitarian brand of Islam, I suppose violence will die down.

In the meantime, various factions will fight it out to determine if a little girl is entitled to an education. But yeah, the US is the evil bastards in Iraq…

Well, since you seem to support direct benevolence so much, you wouldn’t mind free national health care, would ya?

We’re not evil bastards. I don’t want out because it’s wrong to be there, even though I think it was wrong to go in the first place, I want out because American blood is being spilled for a war I do not think we can “win”. [/quote]

WTF do you mean “I want out”? WHAT THE FUCK have you done? Who cares if YOU don’t think we can win? Who are your military advisors? Let me guess…CNN, moveon.org, NYT, and NPR. Outstanding. You would have pulled out of Germany after the Battle of the Buldge and would have left Japan alone after they captured the Phillipines.

First off sorry, should have taken the time to fix the grammatical errors of my post.

2nd, We are in an occupation.

3rd. The Iraqi governments forces are growing. Its starting to pick up its pace too.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Yet, there are those that somehow believe there will be less bloodshed if the US leaves. Sure, I suppose so, in the long run. Meaning, once the sectarian Islamists have killed enough people to impose their totalitarian brand of Islam, I suppose violence will die down.

In the meantime, various factions will fight it out to determine if a little girl is entitled to an education. But yeah, the US is the evil bastards in Iraq…

Well, since you seem to support direct benevolence so much, you wouldn’t mind free national health care, would ya?

We’re not evil bastards. I don’t want out because it’s wrong to be there, even though I think it was wrong to go in the first place, I want out because American blood is being spilled for a war I do not think we can “win”.

WTF do you mean “I want out”? WHAT THE FUCK have you done? Who cares if YOU don’t think we can win? Who are your military advisors? Let me guess…CNN, moveon.org, NYT, and NPR. Outstanding. You would have pulled out of Germany after the Battle of the Buldge and would have left Japan alone after they captured the Phillipines.

[/quote]

Judging by your repeated invocation of tiresome World War II analogies, I question whether your understanding of this war is much greater than that of the “MSM” you attack.

He was making an analogy. What have you done to serve your country(NOTHING). where as he has served and I’m serving soon, do something or shut up.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Yes, we all get it. They’re worse than we are. By far. Very few are disagreeing with that.

Just don’t try to make this into an argument for why we’re the supermen of the world, always in the moral right, just because they’re “worse”.

They suck, we’re better. We’re pretty good, we can be better. They should be better, we must be better.

Beowolf, what exactly is your military background? Explain how our troops could be doing better. Let me tell you, they are the best in the world, maybe the best ever. They are fucking supermen. They deal with shit you only simulate on XBox. This is the most humane, bloodless war of all time. 3,000 dead in 4 years? Shit, we lost twice that many Marines in 3 months on Iwo Jima. We killed more Japanese by firebombing Tokyo than we killed by dropping the A-Bombs. YOU have no historical perspective of war.

You need to realize that we are fighting evil people who would blow up your kids elementary school if they could (and they already did in Russia). That is not exageration. Let me guess, you think this should be a police matter.

What is your definition of “better”?

[/quote]

You misinterpret me. I was speaking in general about the US foreign policy mistakes of the past decade or so. Our military is filled with some damn brave men and women, whom I have nothing but respect for as a whole. But that doesn’t make our government infallible. We’ve made mistakes, and just because they are immoral bastards we’re fighting, doesn’t mean we’re in the moral right regardless of our actions. I wasn’t talking directly about civilian deaths or deaths of Iraqis in general, but of the overall foreign policy of the US.

I see, reading TB’s post again, how you could have misinterpreted my words. I apologize for the confusion.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Yet, there are those that somehow believe there will be less bloodshed if the US leaves. Sure, I suppose so, in the long run. Meaning, once the sectarian Islamists have killed enough people to impose their totalitarian brand of Islam, I suppose violence will die down.

In the meantime, various factions will fight it out to determine if a little girl is entitled to an education. But yeah, the US is the evil bastards in Iraq…

Well, since you seem to support direct benevolence so much, you wouldn’t mind free national health care, would ya?

We’re not evil bastards. I don’t want out because it’s wrong to be there, even though I think it was wrong to go in the first place, I want out because American blood is being spilled for a war I do not think we can “win”.

WTF do you mean “I want out”? WHAT THE FUCK have you done? Who cares if YOU don’t think we can win? Who are your military advisors? Let me guess…CNN, moveon.org, NYT, and NPR. Outstanding. You would have pulled out of Germany after the Battle of the Buldge and would have left Japan alone after they captured the Phillipines.

[/quote]

Try the former two top US generals of the United States, both of whom said Iraq was a bad idea, and were both fired for saying so.

I know three soldiers serving in Iraq right now. They’re their because they’re brave enough to serve our nation, but right now, they have no idea what they’re fighting for. They fight for the Iraqis, and the die for them. I do not think that’s right. They still serve, and one happens to be a man I’ve admired and looked up to since before I could talk strait.

As for Germany and the Japanese, the situations were vastly different. The world is not threatened by Iraq. The US is not threatened by Iraq. Germany was an obvious threat to world peace, as was Japan.

In fact, I was all for kicking ass and taking names in Afghanistan to kick the shit out of the Taliban. And if things keep going in the direction they seem to be going, I might end up being for a war with Iran, depending on whether or not they develop nuclear capability and threaten to use it one Israel. I’m am by no means a pacifist.

I apologize if my phrasing of “I” was offensive to you, but your going to have to get out of that. I want my friends to come home before they’re killed in a damn near meaningless conflict.

[quote]John S. wrote:
First off sorry, should have taken the time to fix the grammatical errors of my post.

2nd, We are in an occupation.

3rd. The Iraqi governments forces are growing. Its starting to pick up its pace too.[/quote]

  1. Your forgiven. It’s the internet.

  2. Occupation where there are attacks every week, and copious sectarian violence of near civil war proportions. I consider that war, and while it may not be a textbook definition, I think I got my point across.

  3. Evidence of this? I know there are many Iraqis brave enough to join the Iraqi military/police, but I would think the fact that they are brutally attacked might deter people from joining up. I’m waiting for them to stand up so we can stand down; how long, exactly, is that going to take? Ten, fifteen years? Is it worth it?

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Yet, there are those that somehow believe there will be less bloodshed if the US leaves. Sure, I suppose so, in the long run. Meaning, once the sectarian Islamists have killed enough people to impose their totalitarian brand of Islam, I suppose violence will die down.

In the meantime, various factions will fight it out to determine if a little girl is entitled to an education. But yeah, the US is the evil bastards in Iraq…

Well, since you seem to support direct benevolence so much, you wouldn’t mind free national health care, would ya?

We’re not evil bastards. I don’t want out because it’s wrong to be there, even though I think it was wrong to go in the first place, I want out because American blood is being spilled for a war I do not think we can “win”.

WTF do you mean “I want out”? WHAT THE FUCK have you done? Who cares if YOU don’t think we can win? Who are your military advisors? Let me guess…CNN, moveon.org, NYT, and NPR. Outstanding. You would have pulled out of Germany after the Battle of the Buldge and would have left Japan alone after they captured the Phillipines.

Try the former two top US generals of the United States, both of whom said Iraq was a bad idea, and were both fired for saying so.

I know three soldiers serving in Iraq right now. They’re their because they’re brave enough to serve our nation, but right now, they have no idea what they’re fighting for. They fight for the Iraqis, and the die for them. I do not think that’s right. They still serve, and one happens to be a man I’ve admired and looked up to since before I could talk strait.

As for Germany and the Japanese, the situations were vastly different. The world is not threatened by Iraq. The US is not threatened by Iraq. Germany was an obvious threat to world peace, as was Japan.

In fact, I was all for kicking ass and taking names in Afghanistan to kick the shit out of the Taliban. And if things keep going in the direction they seem to be going, I might end up being for a war with Iran, depending on whether or not they develop nuclear capability and threaten to use it one Israel. I’m am by no means a pacifist.

I apologize if my phrasing of “I” was offensive to you, but your going to have to get out of that. I want my friends to come home before they’re killed in a damn near meaningless conflict.[/quote]

I disagree, the soldiers know what there fighting for, they are fighting for a democracy in Iran, at least thats why im joining.(Boot in June!)

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
John S. wrote:
First off sorry, should have taken the time to fix the grammatical errors of my post.

2nd, We are in an occupation.

3rd. The Iraqi governments forces are growing. Its starting to pick up its pace too.

  1. Your forgiven. It’s the internet.

  2. Occupation where there are attacks every week, and copious sectarian violence of near civil war proportions. I consider that war, and while it may not be a textbook definition, I think I got my point across.

  3. Evidence of this? I know there are many Iraqis brave enough to join the Iraqi military/police, but I would think the fact that they are brutally attacked might deter people from joining up. I’m waiting for them to stand up so we can stand down; how long, exactly, is that going to take? Ten, fifteen years? Is it worth it?[/quote]

There was something in the political section a little bit ago that showed them standing up, they can’t take care of them selves yet but there sure ass hell getting there. and im more then happy to go and help them get there. and if it takes 15 years it takes 15 years. think about it, an ally in the middle east so close to Iran that they would never think of fucking up.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
This is the most humane, bloodless war of all time
[/quote]

Oh no. You just upset several historical societies. You were joking, right?

[quote]John S. wrote:
He was making an analogy. What have you done to serve your country(NOTHING). where as he has served and I’m serving soon, do something or shut up.[/quote]

I’m sorry, I didn’t realize this forum followed fascist rules, where only current and former military are allowed to speak. I admire PGJ’s service, but that doesn’t make him infallible.

And no offense, good luck to you, but until you’re actually in uniform you’re not in the same position as someone who is an active duty Marine.

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
John S. wrote:
He was making an analogy. What have you done to serve your country(NOTHING). where as he has served and I’m serving soon, do something or shut up.

I’m sorry, I didn’t realize this forum followed fascist rules, where only current and former military are allowed to speak. I admire PGJ’s service, but that doesn’t make him infallible.

And no offense, good luck to you, but until you’re actually in uniform you’re not in the same position as someone who is an active duty Marine.[/quote]

I wasn’t I was just showing that I am going to go do something and he has already done something to help the situation, while you do nothing but bitch.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

Real heroes, these freedom fighters. Anyone know exactly how slaughtering hundreds of little girls in cold blood has anything to do with lashing out against their “oppressors”?

Me neither.

[/quote]

So ham-handed occupations bring out the worst in people…

Who knew?