T Nation

Tapering off TRT W/O AI or HCG


#1

From the age of 22-26 I suspected something was off as my energy was never great, always had to push myself to get to the gym or get to work. 2014 June I asked for a complete blood panel, everything looked great. I assumed I was just being lazy.

2015 June blood work again and I ask about my testosterone from the previous year and I was told they didn’t test for it (obviously annoyed). My results come back, I’m told my testosterone was low. Mean while I was training 5-6 days a week and running hills 1 day a week. I managed to get down to 186 lbs about 12% body fat but injuries and exhaustion hindered further fat loss.

Decided to retest in September after I started bulking. During my cut I tracked my macros and ensured I always got 55g fat, 225g+ protein and 260g carb depending on the day. Around the same time I came home from school one day and felt like I was going to fall down so I sit down on my bed and pass out for 4 hours. Still had my work boots on and everything.

Go back to my Doc for my results, find out my testosterone was 9.27/38 in June 2015 and dropped to 8.26/38 by September 2015. So my doc decided to put me on Testosterone. At that point the fatigue and brain fog was just horrible and something had to change. I would sleep some days from 4pm to 7am, not able to study or even eat dinner. December 2015 we start 100 MG a week IM (my doc originally wanted to do 200 MG once a month) as well as HCG 100 IU a week. I stopped using the HCG after running out of the 10 cc’a as I read it wasn’t good for long term use.

This week I finally got to see a endocrinologist and he couldn’t figure out why my testosterone had dropped. My pituitary was secreting adequate levels and commented that I had “a lot of testicle still”. My thyroid was good physically inspected it and I’m assuming blood work could show that as well?

His plan is to taper down 25MG down from 100 MG every month along with blood work every month and use clomifil at the end if needed. As well I do have a prescription for HCG. I am also currently using provigil for night shifts and foggy days.

I would really appreciate some insight on this. I know starting testosterone right off the bat and not using a HPTA restart instead would of been more intelligent but I wasn’t capable of waiting any longer.

Thank you in advance everyone.


#2

Please get and post all of your labs with lab ranges. Do not want to you say something was normal and not post. We are looking for something docs may be overlooking.

Please read these stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Have you been using iodized salt to support thyroid function?
Outer eyebrows sparse?
Feeling cold easily?


#3

Thank you for your reply KSman. I had to debate with my doctor about getting clomid prescribed (only serm he was open to) and it’s taken months.

So now I need to begin the restart. So 250 IU HCG EOD and no anti E is needed?

My issues with this Endo is what most guys experience is seeming a large amount of ignorance. Not once or even now was he planning to test my E2.

Thank you for your help guys, the fact that you put out the effort to help others is tremendous. I’m just at the point where I’m like F I hate needles and I wish I knew about the HPTA restart a year ago.


#4

Please see my thoughts in the HPTA restart sticky.


#5

Thank you for your reply KSman

I’m still on TRT and I can’t find something stating when to begin HCG while still on TRT or ect?


#6

We encourage all TRT guys to be on hCG, unless testes are lost or damaged. If you start hCG while on TRT, your testes are recovering and you can do a restart later where early phase of the restart is already done.


#7

I’m nearing the end of my HCG and I’m feeling better than when I was on TRT. Unfortunately I don’t think it would be wise for me to get blood work done simply because the Doctors overseeing this would probably not allow me to continue with clomid if they saw high testosterone levels.

Going forward, worst case scenario if I can’t get a AI is it at all viable to use a combination of maca, grape seed extract, reservatrol and anti-estrogenic foods to block E2? I’m going to try to convince my Endo to switch my SERM to nolva instead as well.

Thank for getting me this far KSman! It may sound crazy, but you’re saving lives.


#8

Update.

The “endocrinologist” that was overseeIng the HRT abandoned me and told me to do one thing and then when writing a letter to my GP he said “you can use clomiphene while on testosterone to help the transition off of testosterone” but what he told me to do 7 months ago was to drop testosterone and go on clomiphene which I knew would be a failure but proceeded anyway.

My GP has since attempted to persuade me to buy illegal steroids twice (second time I recorded this conversation which is legal in Canada fortunately) and now has refused to prescribe me testosterone further. Very frustrating to have someone put you on a HRT then in a way leave you out on your own and tell you to figure it out.

I am now going to have to pay to see a naturopath in Vancouver BC and hope he can assist me in this transition off of testosterone.

Starting to think I should speak to the college of Physicians about my GP’'s decisions, seems to set off some alarms in my mind.