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Tamoxifen vs Clomiphen for Pituitary Stimulation

I tried taking small dosages clomid 12.5mg EOD, but I couldnt handle the side effects - low energy, moodiness and ED! Alhtough only after 5 such administrations my testosterone and LH increased with 25%! I also take cabergoline because my prolactine was slightly elevated so Im not sure if the test did not increase also to the cabergoline.

If I cannot handle clomid should I try nova? What is its mechanism of action in men? Will it increase estrogen? Some poeple say clomid is the better SERM for PCT, others say nolva. Also about the side effects people are not very on the same page.

Here I found some studies about nolva that it has some bad long - term side effects:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=tamoxifen&fbclid=IwAR1l8q0Jgi91XvV_X5jD3YdtLRW61RJGsogoKozJ4eHyJlsmtElvOrvviqs

Nolva is better for PCT.

Ok, can you explain a little bit…

Less side effects, triggers the same response, prevents gyno at the same time if you’re prone.

“The mean increase in testosterone (40 vs. 25%; P<0.05) and LH (70 vs. 30%; P<0.01) was significantly greater with tamoxifen than with raloxifene treatment.”. This is not compared to clomiphene citrate in your quoted study, but the point is, for restart/PCT tamoxifen/nolvadex works better. Sides are not a serious issue for a 5 week use of this drug.

Wow this is strange. My dealer said nolva is very bad, fucks the bone density more than AI and because it blocks the estrogen receptors leads to increasing of free estrogen in the body. He even does not want to sell it to me :smile:

Does it increase serum estradiol and does it stimulate the pituitary as well as clomid?

Bone density is a non-issue if you are doing weight bearing exercise, like squats.

I do, but I also do machines on my current regiment.

I do not have a study handy, but it stimulates at least as well as Clomid, without E2 sides.

So I may fee better on nolva than on clomid? Should I monitor my eatrogen and what dose to start? Maybe 10mg per day?

If you are doing a restart, as in 5 weeks to see if you can get things working right, 40 mg / day for one or two weeks, then 20 mg / day for 3 weeks, then 10 mg / day for a week if you want.

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MY doctor told me her prefers to use clomid and in the past I did respond to clomid pretty well its just the E2 was a little hard to control. So for this attempt of a restart im going to be going with tamoxifen 20 mg/ day for two weeks then 10 mg /day for another two weeks hopefully this works

Interesting topic.

I read a study online that Nolva sensitizes the pituitary to Gnrh while Clomid supposedly desensitizes. I’m not enough of a scientist (and lack the time) to figure out if this is true or if it matters.

This seems to be the logic in Dr. Scally’s protocol of taking Nolva last and a little bit past the Clomid. Clomid seems a bit stronger from what I’ve always seen but not 100% sure about this.

And I’m always curious: if you’re in pct, then how do you tell the difference between the serms effects and the likelihood that you just have low T at the moment?

If you take both of them one after the other you cannot tell anything besides the immediate side effects