T Nation

Tamoxifen Only Cycle?


#1

Been thinking of giving this a s hot, it is supposed to increase natural test production by reducing estrogen and forcing more test production.

I'm natty, 19 yr old, clean and calculated 3150kcal a day diet, following DTP.

Proposed cycle: 20mg tamoxifen everyday for 6 weeks. Thoughts?


#2

waste of time. Don't do it.


#3

i think he needs to do it, if for no other reason then he'll stop posting new threads about the same thing over and over again...


#4

I'm not gonna make fun of him because I've actually wondered about this too. Nolva makes me feel amazing. After a few weeks of no gear, I start to feel the effects of low test, but then get back to feeling like superman once I start PCT of nolva only. If it blocks estrogen and stimulates test production, while lowering SHBG, why wouldn't it work as a regular test booster alone.


#5

well, it raises SHBG and estrogen, while lowering IGF-1. yeah, it'll boost test, but if you wanted a "boost cycle," i'd look at an AI instead.


#6

How would it increase estrogen? And according to a thread you wrote and referenced, it does not raise SHBG


#7

You're like George Costanza from Seinfeld. It's amazing how much effort you can put into finding ways to avoid actual work.


#8

I take anastrozole and nettle root. I definetly feel a fuck ton better.

After cycle I bounced back fairly quickly but my estrogen ratio wasnt optimal.

There have been studies done on what I'm taking but there are no rapid increases in lbm or the them sweet gains associated with such.


#9

well, i wrote that Nolva doesn't specifically raise SHBG, but Tore does. anyway, pretty much any time estrogen increases, then so does SHBG. and all SERMs raise estrogen.... therefore, we know that Nolva doesn't lower SHBG, and is actually likely to raise it, albeit a small amount. this is also why AI's typically lower SHBG.

SERMs raise estrogen by displacing actual estrogen from the ER, and by raising testosterone and LH, and the resultant aromatization to estrogen.

^this conversion to estrogen is why i suggested people to get their estrogen levels under control prior to PCT.


#10

Learn how to train.

Learn how to eat.

Learn how your body responds to BOTH training and diet.

In order words, pay your dues for a few years...

...LIKE EVERY OTHER BEGINNER DOES WHEN STARTING OUT WITHOUT LOOKING FOR SHORTCUTS.

Edit.

Fuck I can't believe this needs to be told to anyone above the age of 13.


#11

I've been training since I was 14, I'm dead serious about bodybuilding but choose not to do steroids before the age of 22-23, hence want other boosters


#12

Your following dtp this tells me you don't know how to train

I like Krisgetthin and have used his programs before. The problem is there scattered all over the place with unattainable goals


#13

What is your height? What are your lifts?


#14

I'm just following the 4 week program for some variation. I otherwise follow Steve Shaw's 4 day power muscle burn split.

These are my lift stats for 3 reps each:
Bench press 195 lbs
Deadlift 205 lbs
Squats 175 lbs (for 4-5 reps)

The only supps I take are multis, fish oil, zinc, vit C, and occasionaly whey or a blend if I'm travelling, miss a meal or need a more convenient option.

I don't use the smith machine for any lift, seldom use cables, and stick to basics. Check out the 4 day power muscle burn split to view my workout


#15

Height: 176cm or 5'11
Weight: 170lbs

Diet:

Protein approx 165-175 lbs from different sources like skimmed milk,eggs, chicken, cottage cheese.
Carbs: I don't really measure my carb intake, keep it fairly moderate and dont over eat. I'd say roughly 300g
Fats:75g from healthy sources like egg yolks, peanut butter, avacados


#16

It doesn't matter how long you've been training. You are still a beginner with your stats. Your lifts are a joke for someone with 4 years of training.

Anyone can spout bullshit like "I'm dead serious about bodybuilding" but your results prove otherwise. They reflect the effort you actually put into this.

Sorry man, my advice still stands. Learn to eat, learn to train, put in some actual effort and stop looking for shortcuts.

Post in the beginners section and seek advice.

Or go to your gym and find some really big and strong fuckers to train with.

There is no free ride. You need to pay your dues. Even if you take steroids at this level you are just going to bloat up for 3 months and then go back to where you are now after that.


#17

After seeing your lift stats there are two scenarios

A. This thread is troll bait
b. You need 5x5

Dtp is the last thing you need right now