Taliban: Kill the Teachers!

[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Forcing barbarians to recognize individual rights, property rights, eliminate slavery, emancipate women, on and on, is a bad thing? We should be tolerant?

Yup, the British Empire was forged out of hugs and kisses and a big bag of love.

[/quote]

You forgot to mention Despotism, slavery and slaughtering of indigenous peoples, and so on and so forth.

But like you said, Western Culture, hugs and kisses. We’ll just ignore a time period called the “Dark Ages” (hint: they were called that for a reason), we’re pretty lucky that the Muslims in the Middle East saved the Ancient Greek texts for us.

It is a delicious irony that “Taliban” means students in Arabic…

[quote]Ren wrote:
pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Forcing barbarians to recognize individual rights, property rights, eliminate slavery, emancipate women, on and on, is a bad thing? We should be tolerant?

Yup, the British Empire was forged out of hugs and kisses and a big bag of love.

You forgot to mention Despotism, slavery and slaughtering of indigenous peoples, and so on and so forth.

But like you said, Western Culture, hugs and kisses. We’ll just ignore a time period called the “Dark Ages” (hint: they were called that for a reason), we’re pretty lucky that the Muslims in the Middle East saved the Ancient Greek texts for us.[/quote]

Yep, those civilised Arawaks, who got there by eating the Caribs. Or the tribe the Brits found, where the chief drank a potion made of human hearts. Or India, where wifes were flung on hubby’s funeral pyre. Those damnned uncivilised British!!! How dare they stop such stuff!

The Spanish, btw, did torture the Arawaks. They WERE pricks!!

[quote]TQB wrote:
It is a delicious irony that “Taliban” means students in Arabic…[/quote]

Intelligence in Belgium! I KNOW you are not related to Wreckless.

The British weren’t uncivilised for preventing the burning of widows.

They were uncivilised for killing hundreds of thousands of natives in the process. And hauling of everything of worth.

But HH, perhaps you’re looking to spread freedom and democracy again. Pretending even that your liberating forces will be showered with flowers.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Ren wrote:
pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Forcing barbarians to recognize individual rights, property rights, eliminate slavery, emancipate women, on and on, is a bad thing? We should be tolerant?

Yup, the British Empire was forged out of hugs and kisses and a big bag of love.

You forgot to mention Despotism, slavery and slaughtering of indigenous peoples, and so on and so forth.

But like you said, Western Culture, hugs and kisses. We’ll just ignore a time period called the “Dark Ages” (hint: they were called that for a reason), we’re pretty lucky that the Muslims in the Middle East saved the Ancient Greek texts for us.

Yep, those civilised Arawaks, who got there by eating the Caribs. Or the tribe the Brits found, where the chief drank a potion made of human hearts. Or India, where wifes were flung on hubby’s funeral pyre. Those damnned uncivilised British!!! How dare they stop such stuff!

The Spanish, btw, did torture the Arawaks. They WERE pricks!!

[/quote]

The British were as big a bastards as everyone else when it came to exploiting indigenous peoples. They were just a lot better and more subtle than most. The fact that they got to write history as they see fit probably helps cover up some of the nasty things they have done.

But everyone knows that you like to hold western culture as this shining light compared to the rest of the world, despite any evidence to the contrary. Why ignore all of the West’s blemishes and then highlight non-western cultures’ failings?

Yes the warm and fuzzy British Empire…HH,any gues as to who started the practice of concentration camps?
(And for all our British forum readers,I’m not picking on the British only,every empire has been brutal.So no offence intended)

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
TQB wrote:
It is a delicious irony that “Taliban” means students in Arabic…

Intelligence in Belgium! I KNOW you are not related to Wreckless.

[/quote]

Oh Dear,…

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I think the poor slobs in Darfur, for example, might like a little ‘Western culture’ right about now, in the form of the United States military.

[/quote]
Europe is the reason Africa is messed up in the first place. If you don’t know why then you needn’t be teaching.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I think the poor slobs in Darfur, for example, might like a little ‘Western culture’ right about now, in the form of the United States military.

Europe is the reason Africa is messed up in the first place.
[/quote]

Yes. If the European cultures had not left Africa, it would be a much more civilised place. One could actually own a farm in Zimbabwe, being white, w/o being driven off by swarms of squatters (who proceed to starve because they don’t know how to farm. They thought the crops would grow and harvest themselves.) You’d probably be free to drive from one end to the other w/o being assaulted, raped, tortured, and so forth…

You guys do realize, btw, that the State Department now recommends that no American visit Africa. Not one single country! Why?

Yep, esp the British, should never have left. The Belgians were cruel pricks; who knows if Congo is better off?

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I think the poor slobs in Darfur, for example, might like a little ‘Western culture’ right about now, in the form of the United States military.

Europe is the reason Africa is messed up in the first place.

Yes. If the European cultures had not left Africa, it would be a much more civilised place. One could actually own a farm in Zimbabwe, being white, w/o being driven off by swarms of squatters (who proceed to starve because they don’t know how to farm. They thought the crops would grow and harvest themselves.) You’d probably be free to drive from one end to the other w/o being assaulted, raped, tortured, and so forth…

You guys do realize, btw, that the State Department now recommends that no American visit Africa. Not one single country! Why?

Yep, esp the British, should never have left. The Belgians were cruel pricks; who knows if Congo is better off?

[/quote]

HH, please don’t talk about Africa, you have absolutely no idea what has happened there. And hey, leaving a country where you DENIED any education or higher learning to the native people sure as hell makes for guaranteed success in years to come right?

Once again common sense has failed you. I’m surprised you know where Zimbabwe is on a map.

[quote]Ren wrote:

Once again common sense has failed you. I’m surprised you know where Zimbabwe is on a map.[/quote]

Somewhere around Rhodesia, right? :wink:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Ren wrote:

Once again common sense has failed you. I’m surprised you know where Zimbabwe is on a map.

Somewhere around Rhodesia, right? :wink:

[/quote]
Africa is the culmination of all old world European fucked-up beleifs–namely white supremacy. If you think that this is tolerance then you have more problems than your inabilty to understand basic human nature.

Western “tolerance” pushed native peoples off their lands and completely wiped out emerging cultures–in the name of “civilizing” them. The fact of the matter is that westerners are/were only concerned with their own culture and expansionist beliefs.

This applies to every non-European continent with human life. White people have put their hands on everything and all but killed non-white culture.

You can sit and prop up western culture and defend it until you are blue in the face the fact of the matter is that it isn’t all peaches. We are only tolerant of other cultures when they accept that ours is the best.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

You can sit and prop up western culture and defend it until you are blue in the face the fact of the matter is that it isn’t all peaches. We are only tolerant of other cultures when they accept that ours is the best.[/quote]

And this is nearly true of every culture that has ever been, in some capacity.

The West just simply won more of the wars. The West didn’t invent the theory of cultural dominance - it just did it the best, backed by the force of the Enlightenment. The West also began ridding the earth of the historical practice of slavery whilst the ‘noble savages’ continued the practice unabated.

Isn’t it also amazing that the very cultures that the cultural-relativists want respected don’t themselves believe in reciprocating the cultural relativism?

There can be no serious question that the West is superior - the only question is do we respect non-Western people to let them live the way they want? The ideas of Western supremacy and tolerating other cultures are not incompatible.

That was the initial assertion of the academic Left - that we must get away from the idea that one culture can be superior in hopes that it would undermine the justificaton for colonialism. But, that assertion represents a false choice - you don’t have to think all cultures are ‘equal’ to think that peoples are entitled to live by their own way.

With exceptions, of course.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

Western “tolerance” pushed native peoples off their lands and completely wiped out emerging cultures–in the name of “civilizing” them. The fact of the matter is that westerners are/were only concerned with their own culture and expansionist beliefs.[/quote]

And native peoples pushed other native peoples off their lands and sometimes completley wiped out each other’s cultures - in the name of “dominating” them.

All peoples - Western, non-Western - share in the tragic engine of history. Indian tribes acted exactly like European nations - they worked together, they fought, they slaughtered one another, they made compacts to live in peace, they traded.

We all played by the same savage rules of dominance in that era - the West just happened to be better at it than everyone else.

You’d do better to sober up from the intoxicating vapors of the myth of the ‘noble savage’.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Ren wrote:

Once again common sense has failed you. I’m surprised you know where Zimbabwe is on a map.

Somewhere around Rhodesia, right? :wink:

Africa is the culmination of all old world European fucked-up beleifs–namely white supremacy. If you think that this is tolerance then you have more problems than your inabilty to understand basic human nature.

Western “tolerance” pushed native peoples off their lands and completely wiped out emerging cultures–in the name of “civilizing” them. The fact of the matter is that westerners are/were only concerned with their own culture and expansionist beliefs.

This applies to every non-European continent with human life. White people have put their hands on everything and all but killed non-white culture.

You can sit and prop up western culture and defend it until you are blue in the face the fact of the matter is that it isn’t all peaches. We are only tolerant of other cultures when they accept that ours is the best.[/quote]

Hmmm… when I look at European culture, its philosophy of the rights of Man, it’s pretty clear to me that European culture is superior to people who have no such concepts. Individual rights are a unique European idea. Therefore, the West IS superior both objectively and subjectively.

Certainly, some individuals used acquired knowledge to exploit indigenous peoples. So what? Its normal for humans to do this to each other. One doesn’t leap from being a barbarian to being a kind and gentle soul overnight. Besides, this last may not even be possible — it is much more natural to carry a sword than push a plow. We are a violent species. Why deny it? And you want kindness for ‘indigenous peoples’? Ha! What part of fantasyland do you live in?

Violence is normal. We’re good at it. Hatred and power-lust are the supreme emotions. Our history demonstrates that quite well. Individual rights are an attempt to control this in us. Therefore, YES, the West is superior.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

Hmmm… when I look at European culture, its philosophy of the rights of Man, it’s pretty clear to me that European culture is superior to people who have no such concepts. Individual rights are a unique European idea. Therefore, the West IS superior both objectively and subjectively.

Certainly, some individuals used acquired knowledge to exploit indigenous peoples. So what? Its normal for humans to do this to each other. One doesn’t leap from being a barbarian to being a kind and gentle soul overnight. Besides, this last may not even be possible — it is much more natural to carry a sword than push a plow. We are a violent species. Why deny it? And you want kindness for ‘indigenous peoples’? Ha! What part of fantasyland do you live in?

Violence is normal. We’re good at it. Hatred and power-lust are the supreme emotions. Our history demonstrates that quite well. Individual rights are an attempt to control this in us. Therefore, YES, the West is superior.

[/quote]
I humbly disagree. These values are in complete contention with each other. Individual rights, as practices by our forebears, only applied to certain individuals. It has taken many years to amend this logical flaw.

There is no definitive measure of cultural superiority. However, giving certain individuals rights and denying other their’s may be a measure of hypocrisy.

Violence may be a normal phenomenon of nature but then how can we as a culture deny terrorists their just cause? Are they not just doing what comes natural to them? This is relativism…it doesn’t work. With your argument terrorist and terrorism can be justified. Just because something can be done isn’t an argument to actually do it.