T Nation

Taking Personal Control from Drs

Started to post 2 weeks ago but realized I needed to get personal health labs before proceeding so informed choices can be made. Thanks KS Man for all your info–been reading all I can of your posts.
I’m 44 years old.
200 lb
work out 3x week religiously. Heavy weights not much muscle gain over the years but have great strength.

e2 33 (20-44)
testostern 355 (350-890)
free test 105 (47-244)
Estra by tms 35 (9-36)
estrone 41 (9-36)
estrogens total 76 (19-69)
HCG TM 1.55 (0.4-4.9)
Free T4 1.2 (0.7-1.5)

I can post whatever other levels you want–have complete fasting results.

I had testicular cancer 10 yrs ago (bilateral) went through chemo and radiation–have been cancer free since. Thank God the doc let me have implants.
Am on total HRT
Docs feel that 200mg Test C IM 2xmo is sufficient. I have never felt 100%.
Since reading forums here–especially KS Man posts, I feel I am becoming educated and plan on having a frank discussion with GP and Urologist in appointments next month.
Will present both with KS Man’s protocal:

  • 100mg test cypionate or ethanate injected per week with two or more injections per week.
  • 250iu hCG SC EOD [every other day]
  • 1.0mg Arimidex/anastrozole per week in divided doses.

Live in a relatively small town with very conservative medical community–so may be in for a fight to change to new protocal. But will.

I have fattled face bloating, sensitive nipples, hot and cold flashes for 10 years–also depression for which the Dr. prescribed Effexor. Also have severe BPH and have been prescribed Flomax for stronger urine flow.

It seems that the Dr’s prefer to treat symptoms not the underlying problems. NO more of this for me!!!

I am very active, own a vineyard and small farm with horses, etc. It’s a grest life but for what I now realize are misdiagnosed hormonal issues that I have to straighten out–on my own.

I would greatly appreciate any and all input–especially from KS Man. Been reading about AI’s and will order if I can find a safe provider, same with HCG as I really believe my Dr’s will nix both.
Also, being a totally bionic man (some humour here) I may need a modified protocol and am open to suggestions and places to acquire. I learned to self inject–don’t like it but just do it. use 23g 1.5" im needles in the glutes but really like the SC idea though Test C is oil based so may have to also incorporate Test E, P.

Wish I had found this site long ago–my fault–have relied on “professionals” far too long.

Do not understand "Test C is oil based so may have to also incorporate Test E, P. "

Labs: change HCG–>TSH?

If you do not have testes, you have no use for hCG.

Anastrozole is easy to get on your own. https://www.google.com/search?q=research+chemical+anastrozole

You may be able to taper off the the SSRI.

BPH: what are your PSA numbers, recent changes?

  • estrogens are a problem!!!

Read stickies:

  • advice for new guys
  • thyroid basics

If you get insulin needles, you can change your protocol today. Insulin needles do not need a script in many States. Least cost is Walmart/SAM’s house brand “ReliOn”

Prescription required for Insulin? Syringes?

United States:

Alabama NO NO
Alaska YES* YES*
Arizona NO NO (some pharmacies may require)
Arkansas NO NO
California NO NO (some pharmacies may require)
Colorado NO NO (some pharmacies may require)
Connecticut NO YES (can get 10 days worth
without prescription)
Delaware NO YES
District of Columbia NO NO (with DM ID or insulin purchase)
Florida NO Depends on the county, mostly NO, but:
YES Broward County
Georgia NO NO
Hawaii NO ???
Idaho NO NO (may ask for ID)
Illinois NO YES
Indiana NO NO (must sign a logbook)
Iowa NO NO
Kansas NO NO (most pharmacies, if purchased
with insulin)
Kentucky NO NO
Louisiana NO NO
Maine NO YES
Maryland NO NO (some pharmacies: must sign a
Massachusetts NO YES
Michigan NO NO
Minnesota NO* NO
Mississippi NO NO
Missouri NO NO
Montana NO NO
Nebraska NO NO
Nevada NO NO
New Hampshire NO YES
New Jersey NO YES (might be waived with ID)
New Mexico NO NO
New York NO YES
North Carolina NO NO
North Dakota NO NO
Ohio NO NO
Oklahoma NO NO
Oregon NO NO
Pennsylvania NO YES
Rhode Island NO YES
South Carolina NO NO
South Dakota NO NO
Tennessee NO NO
Texas NO NO (doctor’s permission required
– may vary by region)
Utah NO NO*
Vermont NO NO
Virginia NO NO
Washington (state) NO NO
West Virginia NO NO
Wisconsin NO NO
Wyoming NO NO

Thanks KSman!!!
My PSA has risen from .05 to 1.1 in one year.
I see the Dr in 2 weeks. More blood work prior to visit. He will also be testing for PSA level, Test and free test, estrogen total, estriadol SHBC, TSH, complete blood panel.

What additional tests should I ask him to have done as i would like all tests done in one blood draw.

Also, how can I PM you??? There are a few questions I would really appreciate your responding to–I am still so ignorant and now I am realizing my Dr’s are totally ignorant too–but at least I am getting my Dr. to let me have him add additional tests.

Also, what should the protocol be for me–will it be the same dosage or do I need a bit more variation and amounts since my body does not have the capacity to produce testosterone or other male hormones now?? I am also VERY active and really working out hard in the gym to add muscle, trim waist, etc.

You are a wealth of knowlwdge, KSman and great inspiration for me and so many others. I was lost and felt totally isolated and alone in the medical issues. You have given me my life back.

This site killed the ability for us to PM each other September 2012.

Please read my earlier post, I think that you are missing some points.

Protocol: T+AI, not T+hCG+AI, otherwise as per the protocol
If doc will not Rx AI, you can get it on your own.

Science experiment: Many intact guys who start hCG after a few months shutdown on TRT report an improvement in mood. This can in theory be from increased T, increased pregnenolone, direct effect of the hCG on the brain or combinations of these. It would be interesting to see how you would react. If you feel better, then its the latter. If you took pregnenolone and felt better, then that would be interesting too.

You do not have any testicular pregnenolone production. And your do not have any testicular consumption of DHEA for DHEA–>T.

Lower E2 will better for your prostate.
Keep watching PSA. Initial rise is from the prostate simply not been androgen deprived as before. Any reductions in urine flow? At your age, you should use a product like this: http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01695/Ultra-Natural-Prostate-with-ApresFlex-and-Standardized-Lignans.html?source=search&key=prostate

Ordered the Prostate pills you recommended–I do have an enlarged prostate and slow flow urine.
Talked with doc via phone today and asked if he will let me take AI–“No way!!” he said because estrogen levels in total, e2 as well, are in the high normal to slightly elevated range, not enough to prescribe AI.

Clicked on the google link you attached as I am going to order it on my own and see if it helps. I am confused by your link as many different potential sources pop up. Can you narrow it down to the source you think is the best–I kind of like Liquidex from RUI and/or Astrazole from Chem One but I will ask for your input here–please!!!

I will follow the protocol of T+AI, and inject 100mg weekly for test in .50mg increments 2x per week. However, based on my medical condition (not producing any T) is it best to say inject IM 100mg Test C one week (.50mg x2), then SC 100mg Tese E or P in .25mg EOD the following week, then back to 100mg Test C IM (again .50mg x 2), then back to the SC injections the following week, etc.?

I am beginning to doubt the Dr. will go for Test E or P but, if you think it is good to alternate IM one week, SC the following, etc., I will proceed on my own. IF I can find a safe supplier–again, any suggestions?? I did an internet order once (Western Union to someone in Moldavia–waited 5 weeks, finally got the gear but never used it because the poor packaging, cloudy color, sloppy seal turned me off–no way do I want to harm myself–not after having had cancer and all the treatments, etc. If you can’t tell me where to go, can you tell me where to at least commence researching a site with feedback from body builders??
I may be in the same boat re HCG–doc is so narrow in his thinking–though I would like to see if HCG will react directly with the brain–re mood.

How can I raise pregnenolone?
Finally, should I ever increase the 100mg protocol to say 150mg weekly??
Some guys in the gym have offered to sell Dbol. Should i ever travel down that road???

You can get pregnenolone in capsules, no Rx.

purity, C1 are well known, there are others

can’t help you with UG gear; you do not need any of that, stick with your Rx T cyp

Any T ester will do. No need to play with these. They all have the ester group removed in your body to yield bioidentical T. All T esters are in oil.

See the stickies, no need for me to repeat my self re the basics of SC vs IM etc.

Thanks again KSman.
I will post new lab results after next blood draw.
I wish you were my Dr.

Good luck with taking this into your own hands. Now that you’ve made that decision, it will take you some time read and absorb all the information that is out there. Be patient.

What are your resources like? I see you’re in a small town, but there are some doctors who will help you via phone consult after you travel to see them 1 time.

Thanks, Nomadic
Any recommendations on Dr’s i should make appt’s with? Names. Relatively close to Colorado if possible.
Don’t mind traveling.

Only concern. My primary Dr. has rescheduled my annual physical to May 1. Blood draw must be dome 1 week prior to appt–lab slip already sent to hosp. I just have to walk in for the draw anytime within next 2 weeks. Ordered Anastrozole. Sensitive nipples. Would like to start it when received–expecting early this week. Want accurate current E2 levels. Should I wait to begin?? So tired of feeling like a puppet–both primary dr. and urologist note elevated E2 but tell me it is irrelevent. Now I understand it is not. Alsp, so tired of both telling me 200mg TestC IM inj 2x month is the established and normal protocol and will not consider changing it.
Found eroids.com (recommended by gym buddies). Are any of the listed names safe–hope i am not going out on a limb here. I want to try Test E and P by SC. KSman says stick with sticky propocol–amd I will, but would like a small boost for obvious reasons. Am working out religiously but still see no gains in muscle size–though strength is improving. Am I asking for trouble in wanting a boost??? So tired of the roller coaster ride my body has been on for years–feel great after Inj then 5 days later have no energy, strength, mental acuity. Get depressed. Then start all over after next inj. Hell of a way to live.

KSman and Nomadic:
Upcoming blood draw: Dr. wants

  1. PSA diagnostic
  2. Testosterone/testosterone free
  3. basic meatbolic
  4. hepatic profile
  5. hemogram w/plat
  6. CBC

I am also asking for estrogens total and specifically E2 level

What else should I be demanding??? Full thyroid?

All other recommendations you have as I will insist they be added to the blood draw.

Yes, ask for TSH, fT3, fT4
Read the thyroid basics sticky and get iodine and body temp data here. SECOND TIME ASKING!
And cholesterol, if not in the others

CRP for general inflammation
homocystine to detect arterial inflammation

Morning temps (last 2 days) on rising: 96.3, 96.1
afternoon temps (last 2 days) 97.5, 96.8

Definite thyroid issues

Blood draw today, comprehensive, for what my GP calls the “annual physical.”
Every possible test is being run, it seems, except, TSH, Lipids, Vit-D, A1C. Reason, the Dr. forgot to list the CPT codes on the electronic lab slip for these based on my medical condition. The lab would have run the tests (hosp lab) but my Ins would not cover the cost of each and I was told the 4 tests will cost me $455.00. My GP only works 3 days per week tues-thurs. However, the lab can run these 4 tests from today’s blood draw if the Dr. provides the lab the CPT codes by Tuesday (the lab keeps the blood for 5 days). I have excellent insurance and see no reason not to use it. Just blowing off steam at maybe having to have another blood draw for these 4 tests if the Dr. doesn’t get the info to the lab in time.

Neither my urologist or GP will run E2–though the urologist has in the past. Don’t understand the reason. Will make an appt with an endo doc this coming week (GP referral necessary) to get the test and whatever else you recommend–it might be best to have the endo run the TSH, ft3,ft4, C reactive protein and homosystine levels too.
Losing faith in my GP and urologist.