T Nation

Take the Other Side

Politics and World Issues
#1

This is a bit of an experiment I’ve been thinking about trying for a while now. If it doesn’t get any interest, I won’t let my feelings get hurt and will just let it die, but who knows, maybe this will end up being fun for a lot of people.

The idea is to take an issue and argue the opposite to what you really believe. So, theists would argue the atheists position. Pro-abortion folks, would take the pro-life issue, Darwinists would adopt a Creationist stance, and of course vice versa.

The only rules are that, in order to participate, once you’ve started, you MUST remain “in character.” If you realize something you want to say that you genuinely agree with through this experiment, take it to another thread and discuss it there.

The other rule is that you MUST take it seriously. I don’t mind humor, but please don’t just adopt the opposite side and act like an ass. The purpose of this experiment is both to foster understanding of your opponents’ positions, and, more importantly, to see if you actually understand your opponent’s argument as well as you think you do.

I am not sure what topic would be best to start with, but probably one we haven’t had here in a while, like, maybe gun control, but I’m not married to any idea. If you are interested in giving this a try, throw out whatever topics you’d like to tackle and we’ll try and agree on one.

If we actually do this, I expect it to be harder than most of us, probably myself included, are used to.

What do you gentlemen think?

#2

Fantastic idea. Gun control is good; abortion I can’t participate in because I don’t have a clear position; Christianity v. unbelief would probably be my top choice. Seeing Zeb v. Pitt in an Obama/Romney matchup would be like Christmas come early.

#3

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Fantastic idea. Gun control is good; abortion I can’t participate in because I don’t have a clear position; Christianity v. unbelief would probably be my top choice. Seeing Zeb v. Pitt in an Obama/Romney matchup would be like Christmas come early.[/quote]

Haha! I can’t even imagine that.

I personally want to do the atheist/theist one, but I thought a more strictly political topic might draw more participants. I think gun control actually has some compelling “againsts” if handled correctly.

If actually turns out to be fun, we can also try other topics in the future.

I’d love to see Lifty try and argue the opposite of his own position, if he could.

#4

Man-made climate change is a scam because plants will simply soak up all the CO2, growing proportionally larger.

Go!

#5

I argue all sides of any debate I participate in with myself first. Jealously defending my opponents positions TO myself as if they were my own before uttering a word to him. I’m betting I could create another few T-Nation accounts (which I would never ever do) and convince the people here I was alternately an atheist/agnostic, Catholic (big C Chris), Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon, new ager or a few other specimens holding views I do not. I’d have to change my vocabulary and writing style though or Cortes would know it was me 3 sentences into the first post. I cannot see having the time now though.

#6

The US has adopted atheism as its state religion!

#7

[quote]therajraj wrote:
The US has adopted atheism as its state religion![/quote]

Alright, I’ll bite.

Why do you say this?

#8

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
The US has adopted atheism as its state religion![/quote]

Alright, I’ll bite.

Why do you say this? [/quote]

The US use to be a Christian nation where children were allowed to pray in school, nativity scenes would be in full display at government buildings, the Holy Bible WAS your school textbook and the Church played an integral role in public policy (rightfully so).

Prayer has since been banned, religious fixtures removed and our children’s school curriculum corrupted. Christianity has essentially been shown the door! Just the other day my son came in blathering on about Darwinism and this crazy notion we came from apes. Apes! After listening to such a crazy idea, I made him apologize to his grandmother for suggesting she was an ape.

What has taken Christianity’s place you ask? The sadistic communist secular killing machine known as atheism! Soon you will need a permit just to celebrate Christmas.

Lord have Mercy

#9

[quote]therajraj wrote:

The US use to be a Christian nation where children were allowed to pray in school, nativity scenes would be in full display at government buildings, the Holy Bible WAS your school textbook and the Church played an integral role in public policy (rightfully so).

[/quote]

Actually none of that is true. The founding fathers were all atheists. You only need to quote a few words from a private letter by Thomas Jefferson to know that - context not withstanding. Also, as can be seen from the writings of Tom Paine, the US was intended to be a Communist state. Either that or the founders were all radical libertarians. Depends what I’m arguing at the time.

#10

Interesting idea Cortes, but I don’t think it’s working out…

#11

Yeah for this to work well people need to sincerely adopt a position, not mockingly.

Imagine you’re on a debate team.

#12

While the Earth is 4.5 BILLION years old, we as humans can predict the weather accurately after measuring it for only 150 years.

#13

I think killing an innocent baby is ok, but killing a convicted murderer is dead wrong.

#14

I believe in pro-choice for abortion, but I do not believe you should have a choice on whether to join a public worker Union or not. I also do not think you should be able to choose the kind of light bulb you use in your home. I also don’t think you should have a choice about purchasing healthcare or not.

#15

This thread is now about taking a position you disagree with and couching it in the stupidest terms possible.

Zionist Christians only support Israel insomuch is that the nation needs to exist in order to bring about the rapture, they otherwise wouldn’t care if the nation were wiped off the map.

#16

Cool idea for a thread, I will try to join in when a good topic is choosen. I am a bit drunk now, so
I am not able to pretend I am a pro-capitalist, muslim/arab hater, antisemite, racist, homophobe, sexist, warmonger etc.

I think that a discussion regarding the welfare state would be fun. My opening argument in such a discussion would be that it is wrong to take $$ from the productive and give those $$ to the unproductive.

#17

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Just the other day my son came in blathering on about Darwinism and this crazy notion we came from apes. Apes! After listening to such a crazy idea, I made him apologize to his grandmother for suggesting she was an ape.
[/quote]
I loled.

And pretty damn hard as well.

The thread has not been a complete failure - that was priceless.

#18

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Interesting idea Cortes, but I don’t think it’s working out…[/quote]

Literally lolling, as I was just thinking the same exact thing.

#19

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Interesting idea Cortes, but I don’t think it’s working out…[/quote]

Literally lolling, as I was just thinking the same exact thing. [/quote]

Yup… It is interesting, and would be nice to see, but…

#20

[quote]florelius wrote:
I think that a discussion regarding the welfare state would be fun. My opening argument in such a discussion would be that it is wrong to take $$ from the productive and give those $$ to the unproductive.
[/quote]

Well then you should support abortion, make it out to be the ultimate act of freedom, and convince the poor their undesirable brood are better off dead. “It’s better for you, better for us.” That way you won’t to have to part with more of your precious tax dollars–no doubt earned by defrauding hard-working federal employees…or aboriginal people.

But if you’re pro-life, I suggest you just shut on up. You want more abortions? Then you just try to touch food stamps/wealfare. We’ll do it, don’t test us! You’ll see a rise in abortions never seen before! Trying to legislate your morality…

Look, let’s calm down. Just think of it like this…Taxation and redistribution of your wealth fulfills a moral obligation to charity. But this way we won’t have to actually be in the company of those…people. /Shudder. That’s for backwards hill-billy Christian conservatives. Yeah, instead, we’ll have government employees to play middle-man.