T Nation

Tabata Training

I have just finished my frist tabata KB thrust set (2 x 16 kg)

i would like to know whetehr my more or less absolute failiure by set7 is normal, or simply that i am unconditioned as hell.

also, have people foukd you get peripheral benefits (loc muscular endurance etc) befroe central, or does this depend on load.

just a few to put me on the right track please.

I did it once, and I plan on doing it again, someday.

I really thought I would add it in every once in a while, but still have not done it.

To compare your conditioning, I convinced my brother-in-law to do it. He did two sets, and with much lower weight. He still qualified to join the Navy.

Tabata is a bitch, no question about it. Anyone else? My one time is obviously lacking in experience.

sorry for my terrible typing.

dyslexia must be a reason!

by set 7, i meant 7 out of 8, not 2 tabata sets! (ie, ex, r, ex, r,ex, r, ex, r, ex, r, ex, r, ex, rest rest rest)

[quote]miniross wrote:
sorry for my terrible typing.

dyslexia must be a reason!

by set 7, i meant 7 out of 8, not 2 tabata sets! (ie, ex, r, ex, r,ex, r, ex, r, ex, r, ex, r, ex, rest rest rest)[/quote]

Oh yeah, I assumed you meant it was the 7th set. Or about three and a half minutes in. (I thought it was only 7 sets in the first place.) Anyway my bro-in-law gave up after 1 minute, and he may not have even finished his second set.

If you can walk afterwards, you are doing it wrong, or working too light.

Sounds right to me.

[quote]The Mage wrote:
I did it once, and I plan on doing it again, someday.

I really thought I would add it in every once in a while, but still have not done it.

To compare your conditioning, I convinced my brother-in-law to do it. He did two sets, and with much lower weight. He still qualified to join the Navy.

Tabata is a bitch, no question about it. Anyone else? My one time is obviously lacking in experience.[/quote]

Joining the navy is like qualifying for welfare. It takes absolutely nothing.

Ross,

    Is it local muscular failure or aerobic failure?
    Reaching muscle failure means that you need better endurance for that movement; I would say that reaching aerobic failure is a SIGN of being in good shape. An example: A really overweight, out-of-shape person would have trouble going faster than a jog during the intervals, and would get much less out of them than me. I get a lot of doing tabata sprints, I suffer a little, but I still enjoy them. Dr. Izumi Tabata, after observing how his protocol affected the speed-skaters he was training, said that those who enjoyed his protocol could not possibly be employing it correctly.

If you’re not getting the 8th set started, then you’re doing too much weight.
The couple of times I did it, I either did front squats with 50kgs or thrusters with 12.5kg DBs. They are a killer.
However, it’s better to get five or six reps on your 8th set with a light weight than not even getting the 8th set started.
Tabata isn’t about weight and over at Crossfit, they will do Tabata freestyle squats (no weight at all) - even that is very tough.
Your target should be the highest possible number in Round 8, not the highest weight possible.

There are many thing in regard this method (after trying it : did 6 sets with 95 lbs. front squats) that I feel like commenting :

1- It’s not so much about aerobic conditionning but more about your lactate tolerance. I used to do track sprinting and kilo riding, wich involves A LOT of training requiring severe accumulation of local lactic acid and the weight training had some sort of tabata into it. This type of training devellops the anaerobic pathwways (being able to produce more lactate and recyling it) and undirectly the aerobic system.

2- There is much about how you breathe during the movement while doing the valsalva manoeuvre. a bit like swimming, if you know how to time your breathing, you can do more. that is, it’s not the main limitative factor.

So, the limiting factor is not strenght but the ability of your system to generate and recycle lactate. There is only one way to be good at that.

cheers

this is all great.

with the thrusters, it simply was a 0 power feeling in, well the whole body, especially upper bidy. like gassing out but with a feeling of zip there.

it is an unusual feeling.

i think the loading was too high for myself, holding the kb’s and attempting the rapid movement as is was challangeing.

i will take this on board. if anyone has bot any other info that will help loads.

gonna try with burpees.

then see how high (.5cm) i jump on the last set!

[quote]Ross Hunt wrote:
Ross,

    Is it local muscular failure or aerobic failure?
    Reaching muscle failure means that you need better endurance for that movement; I would say that reaching aerobic failure is a SIGN of being in good shape. An example: A really overweight, out-of-shape person would have trouble going faster than a jog during the intervals, and would get much less out of them than me. I get a lot of doing tabata sprints, I suffer a little, but I still enjoy them. Dr. Izumi Tabata, after observing how his protocol affected the speed-skaters he was training, said that those who enjoyed his protocol could not possibly be employing it correctly.[/quote]

i agree. i did not “enjoy” it! as i commented previously, the load was too much and as such i think my nervous system (bit of a hige efficiency/low vol) just packed in and couldn’t recruit enough, fast enough.

Hey, I was thinking of adding these in my current routine to improve conditioning. Does anyone have any previous experience with how (positively or negatively) it affects the rest of your training?

My proposed routine:

Monday
whole body workout

Tuesday
tabata torture

Wednesday
martial arts training

Thursday
whole body workout

Friday
martial arts training

Saturday
whole body workout (lighter load/recovery)

Sunday
off

Any comments?

I did tabata 2 weeks ago, front squats @ 95lbs, and was sore for a 8 days!!

[quote]scrooge wrote:
Hey, I was thinking of adding these in my current routine to improve conditioning. Does anyone have any previous experience with how (positively or negatively) it affects the rest of your training?

My proposed routine:

Monday
whole body workout

Tuesday
tabata torture

Wednesday
martial arts training

Thursday
whole body workout

Friday
martial arts training

Saturday
whole body workout (lighter load/recovery)

Sunday
off

Any comments?[/quote]

Looks OK, although if you are doing a lighter workout on Saturday you can always throw the Tabatas on the end of the workout instead of a dedicated day. Don’t forget in Dan John’s article on Tabatas he reckons that if you can do them twice a month you are very tough. Following that advice I would alternate each week with some other sort of interval training method.

Cheers,

Ben

bg100,

Good suggestion, I’ll try it tomorrow and report.

bg100,

So I tried the Tabata at the end of my workout on saturday, which consisted of:

4 x 6 iron cross (see Davies, NOT the gymnastics position)
4 x 6 the bear with only 35kg
some forearm work
TABATA front squats with only my 7 foot bar

Well…

The minimum number of reps I pumped out was 12 in the 7th interval. The most was 20 in the second interval.

I hadn’t done front squats that fast before. Aerobically I was puffing a little, but my legs felt like they were on fire by the end.

Yeah, I am a weak sob…

Two days later and I am still sore in the quads. Earlier today I accidently bumped into a desk and thought someone had stabbed me…is this a common response to this exercise?

Possibly shouldn’t have done the bear before it.

Great fun though.

My wife walked in on the last two intervals and commented that there was no weight on the bar, why were my legs shaking. I offered the bar to her at the end and suggested she give it a try…didn’t take me up on it.

I might try db thrusters next Saturday.

scrooge,

    If leg pain is your fetish, try 'frog hops.' The exercise is simple. Pick a distance - like the length of a basketball court. Start at one end. Drop into a deep front squat - no half-squats, no parallel squats, go butt to heels - and jump forward. Repeat until you've finished the distance, turn around, and come back.
    Superset these with some high-rep, light posterior chain exercise (like kettlebell swings, dumbbell swings, or cleans), and bring a bucket. Seriously.
     If these are too easy, add weight to the frog hops. I have done 3 rounds of this exercise with a third of bodyweight (although I had to pause many times at put down the bar several times). My legs hurt for about six days.

I’m not reccommending this routine for hypertrophy, strength, or pleasure, but it packs an aerobic/strength endurance whallop like nothing else I’ve ever experienced. Harder than 20 rep squats, harder than some Tabatas.

[quote]scrooge wrote:
bg100,

So I tried the Tabata at the end of my workout on saturday, which consisted of:

4 x 6 iron cross (see Davies, NOT the gymnastics position)
4 x 6 the bear with only 35kg
some forearm work
TABATA front squats with only my 7 foot bar

Well…

The minimum number of reps I pumped out was 12 in the 7th interval. The most was 20 in the second interval.

I hadn’t done front squats that fast before. Aerobically I was puffing a little, but my legs felt like they were on fire by the end.

Yeah, I am a weak sob…

Two days later and I am still sore in the quads. Earlier today I accidently bumped into a desk and thought someone had stabbed me…is this a common response to this exercise?

Possibly shouldn’t have done the bear before it.

Great fun though.

My wife walked in on the last two intervals and commented that there was no weight on the bar, why were my legs shaking. I offered the bar to her at the end and suggested she give it a try…didn’t take me up on it.

I might try db thrusters next Saturday.
[/quote]

Scrooge,

Good stuff! This reminds me that I really have to start doing Tabatas more often (have only done them once). I would say that if you can get 20 reps out in a set and 12 on the 7th then you might need to increase the weight slightly, then your legs will still be on fire but you will also be puffing A LOT at the end and you will want to keel over and die in the squat rack, lol! I would say reaching about 15 in the early sets is a good aim, but then the article said it will take a few workouts to get the correct weight.

As for doing “the bear” and Tabatas at the same time, are you crazy??? I would think that you would alternate these exercises as a conditioning workout, not combine them, but then that’s just me…

Cheers,

Ben

bg100,

Yeah, doing the bear and tabata on the same day probably isn’t the wisest thing to do, but hey, the loads were light and it didn’t kill me…

I’ll be gradually upping the loads over the next few weeks, which may result in splitting the days they are performed on.

btw, just noticed you are also from the land of oz. Where do you hail from? I am in Newcastle, NSW.

[quote]scrooge wrote:
bg100,

Yeah, doing the bear and tabata on the same day probably isn’t the wisest thing to do, but hey, the loads were light and it didn’t kill me…

I’ll be gradually upping the loads over the next few weeks, which may result in splitting the days they are performed on.

btw, just noticed you are also from the land of oz. Where do you hail from? I am in Newcastle, NSW.

[/quote]

I’m from Baulkham Hills in Sydney, so not too far away. I’ll be in Newcastle for business on Wednesday as a matter of fact, nice place you live in up there!

just finished tabats 40kg front squat.

need to get my head more in it but man i felt it in my legs more than anywhere. 2 things may be.

not conditioned enough.
not enough weight.

i will see over next few weeks.

will keep weight same. The counter timers that were on another thread are top for it. magnetic strip so it can be attached to the rack. they count down the 20 seconds visibly

was inspired to do 4 x 5 40 kg bears.

may regret that tommorrow. could get a day off work though!

question though. i rack each time. What are other peoples experience. rack/dont rack.

this post may not make much sense. feel funny in the head.