T Nation

TA or TP Concentrations in Relation to Injection Pain


Can anyone compare 100mg/ml to 50mg/ml for ta or tp? Injection pain at 100mg/ml is ridiculous.


It depends completely on who made it and how it was made.


I never found 50 mg/mL of either TP or TA in straight vegetable oil to be the slightest bit painful.

How painful a 100 mg/mL TP injection is, and perhaps whether it is painful at all, is as Bonez says. For example if the solubilizing ability is achieved from ethyl oleate and benzyl benzoate with minimal benzyl alcohol this may work well; if it's attempted with vegetable oil and a shipload of benzyl alcohol it certainly won't -- and not I think just because of direct effect of high BA.


i made this with grapeseed oil. Same recipe for both substances. 72.5ml of oil, 10grams of powder 5% ba 15% bb. I've seen user accounts of ba and bb not having much impact on pain.

I'm injecting about .4cc of TP and about 1cc of TA.

I've used test e before and would say pain was about a 3 on average. sometimes much less, sometimes a little more. the pain after 5 injections is consistantly a 6 minimum.

I have used 5% alcohol before with no problems, but I haven't used bb before. I've heard prop was painful before... but I can't even work out because everything is so tender.


5% ba is too much. 2% is plenty.

I know a guy who used prop at 2/20 at 100mg/ml that was completely painless. Same guy even used a test prop/test ace blend at a total of 150mg/ml that was nearly completely painless and was made with 2/20.


That may be true, I'm not dismissing the idea. Having searched this topic a ton that is what majority says. But most people will also say to never use more than 50mg of tren a day, so I'm trying to be objective here.

I've used 5% alcohol before in test deca solution and had no problems. So what is it about test prop + alcohol makes things so much more painful, since that's what everyone says is painful.

I could not find one user account that said 5% alcohol with a long acting substance caused pain...

Couldn't we just eliminate that to prop?


I don't know where you're doing your research, but when I did mine, it seemed everyone complaining about injection pain had used 5/15.

As long as your gear is filtered correctly, 2% ba is plenty. Why you would use more and significantly increase the chances of getting injection soreness without any payoff is beyond me.

As for prop, some people just get pain from the prop ester. Maybe you're one of them...


I've used 5% before and never had a problem. Was also worried about solubility as I had some major issues last time I tried to brew masteron.


Same guy I mentioned before brewed mast prop at 100mg/ml using 2/20, and while it took a while to go into solution, it went just fine and hasn't crashed. This too, is completely painless.

I'm not trying to be a dick and sound like I keep saying "my way is right and your way is wrong", but I really think you'll like the 2/20 ratio.


I'm not doubting that. It's just I just brewed 10grams of tp and 5 grams of ta... that tp would last me 4 8 week cycles, and the ta 1 8 week cycle.

I don't want to waste it, but also don't want to dilute just for hearsay. My last two injections, I went through a fifteen minute process of warming up everything up, massaging thoroughly ect, the typical protocol. It has made the pain much more manageable. Injections still hurt, the pain is about a 4-5 on a 1-10 scale. Which is way better instead of a tense 6 or 7 like the previous 4 injections. I know that following protocol should of been obvious, but with test e, I would jab the cold oil, and push it through in about 10-15 seconds, and be sore for about 2 hours and then off on my way. It never bothered me, I figured I could man up to the test P as well, but boy was I wrong.

Next time I brew I'll try a 2/20.


I can't prove it's a fact but my theory is that with the wrong preparation, testosterone propionate can recrystallize inside the injection site and this is what causes the pain.

The mechanism by which benzyl alcohol could trigger this problem is that it fairly readily leaves the oil depot after injection, leaving the TP not in an oil/BA mixture which is still capable of holding 100 mg/mL, but in an almost-entirely-oil solution able to solubilize only about 50 mg/mL of TP. It isn't unreasonable at all that the remainder would crash out.

In contrast, benzyl benzoate will remain with the oil, and/or ethyl oleate will remain ethyl oleate, and the solubilizing ability won't decrease much after injection if even at all.


what would your opinion be on a "proper" preparation? Also I like the idea of mostly oil, but after making masteron, it would continuously crash even at 50mg/ml, and I didn't want that to happen here.


My personal method has been simply the plain 50 mg/mL in Wesson oil, but if I wanted to do a 100 mg/mL personally I would probably do the vehicle as one of these:

80/20 ethyl oleate / benzyl benzoate
78/20/2 ethyl oleate / benzyl benzoate / benzyl alcohol

Or the above substituting regular Wesson oil for ethyl oleate, or using a 50/50 mixture of the two. (I remember being interested in doing that a while back, but now I can't remember why!)

If using Wesson or other vegetable oil and if having used heat to assist dissolving I would make certain that the 100 mg/mL mixture wasn't over-concentrated (relative to the solubilizing power of the vehicle) by adding a speck of TP after cooling to room temperature.

If that doesn't precipitate TP, then a formulation is not overconcentrated.

If it does, it is.

While I haven't done it myself, my understanding from other people's results is that the above formulations with ethyl oleate would hold the 100 mg/mL.

There is nothing magic about the specification of Wesson oil above: it's simply what I use and it has always worked well for anyone who has tried it.


No problems whatsoever with 1:10 ratio of BA:BB. No crashing and no other solubilizing agents. Works in all oils too.


You can get 100 mg/mL to hold for indefinite periods of time with 1% BA and 10% BB in vegetable oil?

Sometimes it's possible to get more in with heat than what a solution can actually hold, but it might not crash in the vial for some considerable time.