T Nation

T Replacement Info for Women?

Is there a T replacement forum like this one where i can get advice for women?

@KSman

Helping a friend.

Where i can get advice for women like that are in the stickies

Ask, my wife does it. I can talk about her experiences.

My wife came here asking the same question…still waiting.

What are the applicable hormones of a female and what are the ideal levels?

I can tell you from what I know dosing wise, most women couldn’t handle 20mg weekly, more like 10mg weekly split up multiple injections a week. If you thought doctors knowledge in male hormones was lacking in the medical community, female hormones is even more lacking and few doctor know how to even treat women.

Defy Medical treats women for any hormone a women could be deficient in and they know what they’re doing, they offer telemedicine to most states in the US.

My wife started about five/six years after menopause. She takes testosterone, progesterone, estradiol/estriol and DHEA. All bio identical. Test and estrogen are topical. I think test is 5mg, E3/E2 is 2mg/.5mg, progesterone is 100mg and DHEA is 20mg. Those dosages are daily.

She’s been doing it for over four years and doing very well. Seems like there are a lot of doctors available in our area and more and more women turning to bioidentical HRT with pretty good results.

Also, probably don’t want to go to her gynecologist. Hers does not approve. Have to find a hormone doc, she sees the same guy I do.

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That’s because the doctor isn’t the one suffering, her day will come when that doctor understands why we do HRT.

Her doctor is in her early 40s, and just cannot wrap her head around bioidentical hormones being different from synthetic, conjugated, horse hormones. My wife simply listens to the lecture every year, smiles, and continues to do what she does. Last year, the doctor tried to talk her into reducing her dose in an attempt to wean her off. “How do you know you still need them?”, she asks. Totally expected. Still, interesting that a doctor would try to “unprescribe” something (without seeing lab results) another doctor has prescribed, especially since my wife isn’t consulting her regarding her hormone status, but instead for the yearly gyno check-up. Meanwhile, her dexa scan has improved, mammograms are good, no hot flashes, energy, etc.

How incompetent, all you gotta do is look at the results. I talked with my sister today and her doctor was telling her “I want you off those steroids”. Cholesterol is a steroid, want her off that also.

The problem is the past 70 years doctors are taught in medical school that these steroids cause cancer and are all based on a study from a well respected doctor who’s study is based off two patients. When doctors actually bothered to take a look at this study, they were astonished.

This forum would be your best shot. There have been several threads either with women looking for advice directly or guys posting questions to get info on behalf of their ladies.

Not sure what you’re waiting for. She got dozens of replies in her thread.

Dozens of replies does not equate to help. Just say’in.

Hi Chris,

I’m fairly new to TRT & I haven’t found a lot of help here. There were numerous responses like “read the stickys” but since I’m not retired & don’t have a ton of time to be jerked around. I found a little help from a couple people on Excelmale. A couple guys were able to relay information to me from their wives who are currently on some type of hormone treatment. One guy’s wife is in menopause. I’m perio & while her numbers weren’t what mine could be, hearing her protocol & beginning story was helpful in making decisions to adjust my own testosterone levels.

I was started at a level of .04ml of 50ml/mg then was directed to titrate up (increase) to .05, .06, … up to ml. I reached .08 before my E2 (estrogen) level got too high & I experienced increasing water weight gain which wouldn’t be bad all in itself but the weight gain meant puffy hands, legs, face, etc. Titrating down (deceasing) my T level has helped reduce bloat immensely. The doctor suggested DIM, dandelion root tea, weightless tea, etc. None of the OTC products work.

While my testosterone needed to increase & my estrogen needing to decrease, I found my thyroid was low. I tried iodine with all my might & was told to READ THE STICKYS (yes, I read every, single. one.) all to no avail. The iodine treatment didn’t work for me. I needed T3 medication & was prescribed Cytomel @ 5mcg & told to titrate up to 20mcg if no negative side effects were experienced. I am now @ 100mcg & finally my temperature has reached a norm average of 98.4

I had to regulate my thyroid medication & figure out a personally appropriate dose of testosterone for myself. The doctor could only suggest things to do & none was ever to decrease. We each have our own personal numbers & likely no 2 of us are the same. My advice to her is not to chase the numbers but to fix her symptoms. I was nervous about injections but it’s quick, easy, pretty painless & in my personal experimentation, I’ve finally found needles that don’t bruise me.

There is a lot of conversation about what method if injection is best; subQ or intramuscular. I was advised to do it intra but after my own research found that subQ was a better choice for me because that was takes longer to take effect (we’re talking just a couple hours longer, not days) & it lasts a little longer so there are less highs & lows.

She should join & ask questions. The section for women on this forum is very poor at best. Very few women post there & even less actually respond with info of value.

First, it was adorable the way you posted in that thread and pretended you didn’t know her. Definitely constructive, necessary, and helpful.

Second and more importantly…


Sure seems like she was happy with the quality of info that was offered by the half-dozen members that chose to reply. Looking quickly at the other replies there, looks like pretty much every issue she brought up was addressed.

Please remember, this is Testosterone Nation. Women are and always have been absolutely welcome, but they’ll always be the minority. Dudes probably aren’t posting in the Yoga Journal forum asking how to increase their deadlift. Or if they do, they understand that it’s a reach, because the question is tangentially related to the forum’s primary topic and demographic.

If you’re saying the Powerful Women forum doesn’t provide good info, you don’t know what you’re talking about. For sure there’s not as much traffic there as other sections, but the women who do post advice are all solid and know their shit. They also recently started a thread discussing Hormones, Periods, and Menopause that might have some info you can use. But in general, your best shot at specifically discussing TRT info is in this section.

If you’re looking for much more specific for women from women, especially with the niche-within-a-niche that’s TRT for females, I’m sure Google can help.

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I got notified for this thread, but I’m in agreement with @Chris_Colucci

If it’s of any value, concerning my opinion, the only reason I don’t reguarly post in the women’s sections is because most of the women there are clueless, they have very sub-par or even meaningless goals, they’re just as validation seeking as the young guys that come in here, or they never reply back or blatantly ignore me.

To add, they’re often times just as new to lifting as the guys in the beginner forums, and to be honest, they need to do exactly what the seasoned guys here tell the beginner guys to do: Lift for a while, eat correctly and often enough for a while, and assess yourself as you go for well over the next 7-10 years. With women it’s even more irritating, because it turns into a cat scratch ordeal on what they do and do not want to do.

Of the studies and articles I’ve come across that mention what actually is known concerning women and lifting and their health, their hormones, while they are different, to an extent, and are of different levels compared to men, the discrepancies between the two concerning men and women aren’t that much. We more or less have the same hormones, just at different levels and they’re designed to carry out processes differently, but they also have more similarities than not. I’m talking in a very general sense, and I’m mostly referencing the over-arching theme of training as a whole. I know it’s much more varied and specific concerning hormone replacement, but still.

That’s why I’d rather hang with the rest of the guys because a lot of the things discussed are applicable to me as well as others regardless of who’s a man or a woman.

But aside from that, @anon71262119,
Is ALWAYS giving legit, useful info to women of her age range. Always. And often times she gets ignored too. But I’ve seen her help plenty of people who have questions concerning female hormones, and metabolic issues.

I’m definitely not the best, nor am I an expert, but the young women in my age range just get on my last ever loving nerves. Lol

But I couldn’t agree with you more.

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Thank you for sharing that, @highpull. I’m not there yet, but I’m experiencing several low P symptoms, not weight gain or water retention. And I have a few low E, so I’m afraid I’m starting down this path. No low T symptoms yet. I may pick your brain in the future if you don’t mind.

@amberlin - I can’t like this enough. Agree. For T, some women on the low end of normal feel great, have no low T symptoms. And some women on the high end of normal for T have low libido, low energy. I believe all of this is highly individual, hormones and thyroid. I’m glad you’re finding your way and feeling better.

That made my day. Thanks for the kind words.

I try to catch pregnancy-related questions, or postpartum/ loosing baby weight questions especially. @ General lifting advice, I agree. People in the Beginner’s Forum can usually help, and that forum gets more traffic than PW. It’s not that the men here are unhelpful to women, but they’re unlikely to venture into the PW forum to see a basic lifting question, and I think some of the men assume they’re venturing into the women’s locker room, so they’re unlikely to go in there unless they’re tagged. :wink:

@ General info about hormones. I like Christine Northrup MD’s site. I put this link up in Cyber’s Hormone’s thread. Some of you might be interested in poking around her site. She’s open to bioidentical hormone treatment, but also suggests natural remedies.

@chrisj

@ Ideal Levels. It’s very individual, so I think what’s ideal for one person may not be ideal for someone else, as mentioned above.

This might be helpful.

And a couple of very basic charts.

TChart

MayoChart

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Hope this might help the conversation a bit

My wife 41yr old 5’8 130lbs body fat 19% has had decreased libido and decreased sexual desire with fatigue for years. She also has IUD.
Labs before treatment from Gyn showed:
T free < 0.09 Range. 0.10 - 0.85
T serum < 3 Range 8 - 48
% free T. 2.96 . Range. 0.50 - 2.80
After 3 months of topical T cream labs:
T level 12 . Range 9 - 55
Free T. 1.3. Range 1.1- 5.8
SHGB. 64 *. Range 30-135

Still no improvement with libido so testosterone cypionate was given by inj at 20mg q 7 days.
After 1 month libido is best she has ever experienced and sexual desire much improved. She is very happy. No side effects thus far.

Labs:
Free T 23 Range. 1.1-5.8
T level. 147 Range 9-55
Androstenedione. 0.764 Range 0.134-0.820
SHBG. 39 Range 30-135
Hct. 43.3
Progesterone. 0.2
Estradiol. 177
DHEA. 43 . Premenopausal range 35-430
Thyroid, T3,T4. normal ranges per lab ref range

Update: my wife just had labs taken again after lowering dose to 10mg of t. Cyp

Labs: 2 months apart

Estradiol went from 177 to 21
SHGB went from 39 to 32
Free T. Went from 23 to 10.6. Range. 1.1-5
Total T went from. 147 to 104. Range 9-55
DHEA. 43 to 217
Progesterone went from 0.2. To <0.06

Not sure what to make of it. Not sure if estrogen and progesterone change while having an IUD

Seeing a new doc next week to review labs but have little faith that they know how to manage women hormones.

Depends on the IUD and what form of progestin it has, if any. It almost undoubtedly does not have progesterone, and she should take that.

Surprised she agreed to lowering that.

@bb82

So your wife’s number on 20 mg a week v 10 mg the estradiol went down , prog Down and dhea went up. So is she only taking testosterone Subq?
Any other supps or creams like dhea?

Thanks.

@highpull @bmbrady77

Here’s my thoughts on this dhea thing.
For men too.

Dhea goes down in trt probably because it sees enough testosterone so it’s naturally balancing itself. So why do we like to add dhea?