T-ransformation 2017: Benanything's Log

Lol no definitely not!

But imagine how much a humanoid ape would be able to deadlift.

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Cleans and deadlifts are completely different motor patterns with completely different goals. Deadlifts you want to get behind the bar as quickly as possible and get your chest up as quickly as possible with knees and hips locked. Cleans you want to stay over the bar as long as possible before you finish your pull. Clean goes Knees>hips>triple extension and pull under. There are also a lot of differences in your goals in the two lifts. Deadlifts you want the bar scraping you the whole time, cleans you literally only want the bar in contact with you during the second pull. Deadlifts you also want everything turning on, while a clean is like a golf swing, you want your back and abs to be tight while your legs are really loose and controlled.

In all honesty I wouldn’t recommend the full Olympic lifts to the average athlete. Go do hang power cleans and snatches, and power jerks from racks (preferably from behind the neck) if you want to do them though, they are a lot easier technically and have a lower risk of injuries (except maybe power cleans, I personally despise them). You need to actually be technically proficient to get benefits from the lifts, and to the average person unless they are a former Weightlifter it’s too much effort that could be better spent doing different plyometrics and sled drags/pushes.

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##8/4/2017
Woke up at 72.3kgs, all time lightest in 2017. Probably cause I under ate yesterday


##FOOD
8:00AM - red bean potong
1:30PM - lunch with family at Chinese restaurant
7:30PM - beef soup and vegetables with bowl of rice
9:30PM - honey milk tea

2000-ish calories


##Training
at home, 11:10PM
Push Ups
x3x16, 60 second rest between sets

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Just started browsing logs and catching up on this… I saw above that @Benanything and @The_Myth agreed that the first part of the clean is the same as a deadlift.

I have to agree; however, I think everyone needs to realize that we all might deadlift a bit differently. If you use squat stance, sumo, or semi-sumo then the clean and deadlift are not too similar. If you use conventional then I think you are basically doing the first pull of a clean. If you don’t believe me then look at the videos I’ve posted in the forums. I posted some deadlift reps in the 405 Deadlift Challenge and I’ve posted a video of me cleaning 295lbs in CT’s forum. My form looks pretty much identical on my first pull and my deadlift.

I’m 6’5" (ish) and my best deadlift is 450, front squat is 275, and power clean is 315. None of that makes sense to me other than to confirm that I’m decent at developing power and performing power cleans. I refer to power cleans as the version where you catch the bar higher and your legs are in a 1/4 to 1/2 squat position instead of the full front squat position like the Olympians.

I’ve decided to post my videos in my log just so I have them bookmarked a little better. Feel free to check that for the videos…easier to find that way.

EDIT: If you want to work on power movements and don’t have the skill to do a clean or jerk then do pulls. Start from the hang or the floor, do the appropriate pull(s), get to triple extension, jump and shrug the weigh. No high pull necessary. You can still develop some great power this way and as a bonus you can use more weight than you’d be able to clean. I add 50 lbs to my working sets and do pulls after I power clean.

Thats why you are so slow off the floor.

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fixed that for ya.

Still not convinced.

Have you seen this video? This might help.

This might come off as a bash but I do not consider that to be a clean, power or not. I would consider it to be a deadlift-jump-shrug-power-reverse bicep curl into a clean rack position. That and I think you should probably do less of it and work on your wrist/shoulder mobility to get into a proper rack position. I do foresee impending wrist injuries if you keep it up. Then again, what do I know? I’ve only fucked up both my wrists.

This only further illustrates my point that you are not cleaning correctly. Think of it from a coach’s perspective, everyone cleans(power or not) a percentage of their front squat. The fact that you clean more than your front squat is already a bit of a red flag.


Me deadlifting

me deadlifting with technique tweaks

Me cleaning

another video of me cleaning


I dare say that the lifts look drastically different.

I’ll try to go in order. First, I got the quotes mixed up between you and the myth. I thought you said you did cleans for a warm-up for deadlifts. Sorry about that.

2.) I’m having a really hard time seeing any difference between the deadlift and clean pull videos. I’m only comparing the first pull. Once the bar clears the knee everything changes. I listened to the narrative and still can’t really see the difference as the bar moves from floor to knees. I’m not saying I’m right; I just don’t see it.

  1. I do power cleans. You do cleans. The difference is the catch position and subsequently the height of the pull. In a clean you only pull the bar high enough to drop under and catch it. As soon as the bar is there you drop under. Extra height on the pull is bad because it crashes down on you. I pull higher and drop less. The goal of the catch is to be in the power position (instead of a rock bottom front squat) which is similar to how you look when you jump. We’re doing different movements which is why I always put power in front of cleans when referring to my workouts.

  2. I wouldn’t say my front squat is a red flag for the purpose of my power clean training but I do work on it. The way I train I’m concerned with the pull. My “clean” is only as good as my ability to be explosive and move the weight upward. For you and true weightlifting competitors the weight you move on the clean is dependent upon your ability to drop your hips fast and front squat the shit out of it. And kudos for being able to do that. Some days I play around with trying to clean that way. It’s not easy.

In regards to my wrist and shoulder flexibility I’m fine. I look normal when standing with the weight. I think my problem is at the hips. I’m basically trying to move my hips back like a back squat while holding the weight for a front squat. The end result is awkwardness at best. When you clean your torso is upright and your knees go past your toes a bit. I struggle to get my body to do that. I think it’s posterior weakness…probably upper back (when I miss a front squat I tip forward).

So, in conclusion, we train differently for different reasons. I don’t need to power clean but I enjoy it. I could get just as much out of doing clean pulls only. I’ll continue to improve and never tell you I’m good at it b/c I know I’m not. In the meantime you keep doing your thing and looking good while doing it.

And lastly, a friendly request: careful critiquing a guy who wears a 36-38" inseam in pants. You’ll never know what it feels like to lift with these long ass legs :laughing: Some of the proper or best ways to do things (for the average person) aren’t possible for us taller folks.

Can’t really address multiple points in depth by quoting and such since I’m outside and replying with my phone.

I’ll just focus on point 3).

I know what are power cleans and the only difference between a power clean and a clean is the height at which it is caught. There should be no difference in terms of how well racked it is or the height of the pull or anything else.

I’m not dropping under the bar once it reaches the appropriate height. I’m catching it on my shoulders than going down, it’s a deliberate movement on my part cause I used to have an issue where by I was so much better at the power clean that I was power cleaning more than my actual clean(not comfortable with going deep which limited how much weight I could actually clean).

The goal of the catch is NOT to be in the power position. The goal of the catch is to catch the bar. The goal of the power clean is to ‘catapult’ the bar harder so it goes higher thus having a higher catch position.

On a side note, I think we maybe be talking about a different ways of cleaning. As far as I know, there are 2 different schools of taught on the clean. There’s the ‘catapult’ type of cleans where the bar brushes off the hips and straight into the rack position and the other school of taught which is a… Brushes off the hips, lifter proceeds to high pull and then he proceeds to rotate arms into a clean rack position. Maybe @Destrength can help to confirm this.

And a final note on power cleans and cleans. I would reckon them to Deadlifts (from the floor) and Deadlifts off the blocks. They’re essentially the same thing with minor(relatively) tweaks in them.

I think we’re doing the movement for vastly different reasons so we view it from different perspectives. I can tell you are using lighter weights and being deliberate with your catch phase.

Have you seen CT’s video series about the hang clean on his ThibArmy blog? That’s where I get my perspective on the catch. I use some of those drills. Let’s see if he hammers me on my form or not. He had a chance before but let it go… Maybe the response will take too long lol

Thanks for the engaging discussion. I’m always learning on here.

1 Like

I’ll check out the video when I’ve the time to and I totally agree bout the different perspectives thing.

##9/4/2017
Woke up at 72.2kgs


##FOOD
4:00PM - curry chicken with rice and bread, xiao long bao x5
6:00PM - 5 tu tu kueh

1500-ish calories. Guess I just didn’t eat much today. Probably has something to do with the fact that I had my first meal at 4PM and didn’t have time for dinner. Gotta start eating more. A lot more. Even though I’m supposed to eating in a deficit.


##Training

entered gym at 10:30AM
##5/3/1 Twice A Week C1W1
Bench
20kgs x10
30kgs x5
35kgs x5
42.5kgs x5
47.5kgs x15, 5+ set
50kgs x5, joker set +5%
52.5kgs x5, joker set +10%
55kgs x5, joker set +15%, basically my training max so won’t go any higher
35kgs x3x8, FSL and 5 pull ups after each set

Dips
was trying out two different dip stations, various grips and stuff like wrist wraps, bumped my head too so that’s wonderful. never really done dips before so this is very new to me

Bodyweight x2,5,3,5,5,5,5,5,5,10, total 50 reps

I’ve no idea if I’m feeling stress in my shoulders or that’s my muscles, I’m definitely feeling something though.

Single Arm Dumbbell Row
30kgs x13,10,10,10,7, 50 rep total

Squat
20kgs x5
67.5kgs x5
80kgs x5
90kgs x5, 5+ set, was feeling hella tired and sun burn made it awfully painful to rack
67.5kgs x3x8, FSL

Back Raises
bodyweight x20,20,20,20,20, 100 reps total

EZ Bar Bicep Curl
just the empty bar
10kgs x100

Run
Sprint 880m, walk back 80m. As many rounds as possible in 15 minutes.

Sprints x10, walks x10 in 14 minute 48 seconds.

later at home, 10:15PM
wanted to do push ups but nope, 1 rep and my chest was literally gonna explode


@MarkKO I gotta say, thank you. It’s been a while since I followed a program (or rather a day of training) religiously and I truly do feel humbled. Those ‘bitch weights’ certainly felt a lot heavier that I ever thought they’d be. I guess somewhere along the way I lost sight of what training should be like.

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Is it a good idea to suddenly do 50 reps with the dip if you’ve never done them before?

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I’ve done them before just not too often. My max reps with bodyweight dips was at 30 from over a year ago on way narrower dip bars. As for whether it’s a good idea… Probably not but then again, I do make tons of bad decisions and this just pales in comparison to them so I’m okay with it haha.

2 Likes

@Benanything I’m glad you enjoyed it. Well, you know what I mean. Pretty sure that’s your muscles feeling the work. Dips make them do that very differently to bench.

Well, as long as nothing hurts.

I’m just wary of doing dips because I think doing them with horribly bent wrists + doing presses with the same horribly bent wrists caused my thumb tendinitis that eventually led to surgery.

I’ve started doing dips again, but that’s really only because I found myself pressing and push-pressing for months on end without any issues.

Pain in lifting is really weird, imo. My knees tend to ache and hurt when I warm up for squatting, especially in cold weather. Yet, I don’t care at all.

My elbow aches during dips or I get wrist pain during push-presses and I get scared.

To be honest, I don’t know why I’m not scared that my knees hurt when I warm up.

2 Likes

##10/4/17
Woke up at 72.2kgs


##FOOD
11:30PM - chicken rice with more chicken and lime juice
5:30PM - army food, was sending the girlfriend in, consisted of a generous serving of rice with chicken, some broccoli, mashed potato and soup
7:45PM - banana
9:30PM - noodles

3700-ish calories


##Training
at home, 11:40PM
Push Ups
x3x10, 60 second rest between sets
chest still feeling sore from yesterday

##11/4/17
Woke up at 73.2kgs, probably the excess of calories from yesterday hah


##FOOD
9:20AM - banana
11:40AM - 250g of rice and 250g of chicken
12:30PM - banana
7:30PM - dinner with a friend, maggi goreng, 9 prawn dumplings, 6 siew mai

2800-ish calories.

Oh and apparently I’ve been gauging the mass of rice wrongly all this time so… Yeah.


##Training
entered gym at 3:00PM

Weighted Pull Ups
did with 2 10kg kettlebells from a dead stop of sorts, feet was hooked onto kettlebells and they would touch the ground when I was hanging from the bar

20kgs x7x3
last 3 looked pretty ugly

Sit Ups
doing them at a relaxed pace, slow and controlled
20,15,15, 50 total

Run
Sprint 400m
Walk 400m
Sprint 300m
Walk 300m
Sprint 200m
Walk 200m
Sprint 100m
Walk 400m
Sprint 100m
Walk 100m
Sprint 200m
Walk 200m
Sprint 300m
Walk 300m
Sprint 400m

took 35 minutes 31 seconds, a slight improvement from the previous run…

Pull Ups
x5x5

Okay… Been tinkering around a bit on myfitnesspal and oh my, I might’ve been recording my calories wrong for rice all this time. Damn technology!

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Nice hops.

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Can barely touch the net on a basketball hoop sadly.

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