T-Nation C2 500m Sprint Competition

On 10 setting, did 1m52.

lol have this ever happened to you guys ?

i come down and would try to row 500 meters on the machine … BUT … some fat/big guy/girl had broken the machine in 2 pieces ! i wanted to put it together and found out that the metal had sprained !? i mean wow ? person must be huuuuge !?

why would you use the rowing machine and not put the resistance all the way up to 10? Thats weak.

Anyone who likes the rowing machine should try rowing 10 minutes (or if you’re bad ass 20 minutes) and keep your 500m split time under two minutes… now thats a kick in the balls. (i did the 20 minute one only once)

.greg.

[quote]Sine wrote:

@Jeffra

I got to start working in a few 2K’s. My best time in the last year or so @ 2K was 7:12 but I haven’t pulled more than 4 minutes at once in awhile.[/quote]

7:12 is pretty good. have you ever done rowing in highschool/college?

1:29 500 meter time

500m intervals are really kickass for conditioning !!

2000 Meter at 10 Resistance = 9:14

Thought I would do better but the last 300 meters or so was a killer.

Last 500m time was 1:48 at the 5/6 setting…

[quote]gregron wrote:
why would you use the rowing machine and not put the resistance all the way up to 10? Thats weak.

Anyone who likes the rowing machine should try rowing 10 minutes (or if you’re bad ass 20 minutes) and keep your 500m split time under two minutes… now thats a kick in the balls. (i did the 20 minute one only once)

.greg.[/quote]

Because you’ll have a ton of back problems later in life. Don’t be a moron, learn to row and put the damper on a 4-5 (130-140 digital rating).

Now as far as keeping it under 2 minutes for 20 minutes…most of my high school age 14-18 men can do this easily. I personally do steady state of 90 minutes at a 1:55 split (steady state meaning my heart rate is staying below 155 based on my lactate levels this is the heart rate that keeps me in the UT1 training zone).

As far as my fastest 500 goes, 1:24.1 split.

[quote]Nitedrifter wrote:
2000 Meter at 10 Resistance = 9:14

Thought I would do better but the last 300 meters or so was a killer.

Last 500m time was 1:48 at the 5/6 setting…[/quote]

Pace yourself better. A 9:14, is not so great (most high school female rowers beat this pretty easy).

Pulling even splits is the most efficient way to erg. If you’re shooting for 8 minutes for a 2k, then the most efficient way is to pull a 2:00 for the first, second, third and last 500. Going 1:48 the first, 2:15 the second, 2:20 the third, and 1:47 the last is extremely inefficient compared to just holding a 2 straight across. Now by holding a 2 straight across, you may have more in the tank for that last bit and go sub 8 for total time easier.

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

Pace yourself better. A 9:14, is not so great (most high school female rowers beat this pretty easy).

Pulling even splits is the most efficient way to erg. If you’re shooting for 8 minutes for a 2k, then the most efficient way is to pull a 2:00 for the first, second, third and last 500. Going 1:48 the first, 2:15 the second, 2:20 the third, and 1:47 the last is extremely inefficient compared to just holding a 2 straight across. Now by holding a 2 straight across, you may have more in the tank for that last bit and go sub 8 for total time easier.[/quote]

Thanks,

I only been rowing for about six months and in that time only practiced the 500m three times before trying for an actual time. The insight is well taken and I will give it another attempt.

It’s sweet to see interest in rowing here. I’m a college rower, and I pulled a 1:22.2 last week. The world record is a stupendous 1:14.4 (the guy who set it is second from the bottom) –

1 Like

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
why would you use the rowing machine and not put the resistance all the way up to 10? Thats weak.

Anyone who likes the rowing machine should try rowing 10 minutes (or if you’re bad ass 20 minutes) and keep your 500m split time under two minutes… now thats a kick in the balls. (i did the 20 minute one only once)

.greg.[/quote]

Because you’ll have a ton of back problems later in life. Don’t be a moron, learn to row and put the damper on a 4-5 (130-140 digital rating).

Now as far as keeping it under 2 minutes for 20 minutes…most of my high school age 14-18 men can do this easily. I personally do steady state of 90 minutes at a 1:55 split (steady state meaning my heart rate is staying below 155 based on my lactate levels this is the heart rate that keeps me in the UT1 training zone).

As far as my fastest 500 goes, 1:24.1 split.[/quote]

I dont understand why you would have back problems later in life if you’re strong enough to row at that setting? Does no one ever row at level 10?

Most people in here arent rowers. this is body building site and with this being the conditioning forum maybe someones just looking for another conditioning tool to add to their routine rather than trying to be a competitive rower so no need to go on here telling everyone that highschool girls can row more/better than them. Not nessecary.

also your last two post make you sound like a pompous asshole… just FYI

.greg.

[quote]Nitedrifter wrote:
2000 Meter at 10 Resistance = 9:14

Thought I would do better but the last 300 meters or so was a killer.

Last 500m time was 1:48 at the 5/6 setting…[/quote]

Congrats on the 9:14… Thats not really a bad time… If you haven’t done a whole lot of conditioning stuff or arent very familiar with rowing then you quickly find out how truely tough that little machine really is lol. Keep it up and you’ll improve quickly. Nice work

.greg.

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
As far as my fastest 500 goes, 1:24.1 split.[/quote]

all disagreements aside a 1:24 is pretty damn quick! what was the setting on that? was it 4-5 like you recommended or all the way up at 10?

.greg.

Tried it tonight and got a 1:38.8. This was brutal. I didn’t realize there was a damper setting and it didn’t ask me – anyone know what the default is?

FYI I’ll be embarrassed and humiliated if the default is 0.

[quote]gregron wrote:
I dont understand why you would have back problems later in life if you’re strong enough to row at that setting? Does no one ever row at level 10?

Most people in here arent rowers. this is body building site and with this being the conditioning forum maybe someones just looking for another conditioning tool to add to their routine rather than trying to be a competitive rower so no need to go on here telling everyone that highschool girls can row more/better than them. Not nessecary.

also your last two post make you sound like a pompous asshole… just FYI

.greg.

[/quote]

The fact is, most people don’t have the back strength to continuously keep it up at a 10. Also keep in mind that as a rowing coach and seeing the type of volume actual rowers do (many times being well over 100k+ a week on just the high school level be it on the water or on the erg) is just a recipe for disaster (and have seen this happen many times now). Tim Henderson (I believe that’s who it was) wrote an article about 500 meter sprints and to use them as a conditioning workout, a few years back on here which then lead to a very long set of e-mails back and forth between him and I discussing rowing and damper settings amongst other things (he said rowing was easy to learn and as you can see I get my hackles up about this sport and it’s misconceptions). Rowing standards say keep it low due to the volume we use as actual rowers (most gym rats don’t do this obviously, but most gym rats don’t know shit for technique and rely on the drag factor being up to stay connected) and all out sprinting for 500 meter pieces is going to usually yield better times for people with higher strength at higher damper settings.

After a lot of testing by both him and I (I’m deadlifting 495, he was over 600 iirc) I found my best piece to be was at a fan setting of 170, his was around 180 digital setting. While there is a direct correlation to allowing you to get more power out of a 500 meter piece with a higher fan setting, it dropped off significantly the longer the pieces went. We tested maximal pieces at 2k, 6k, and 10k (or at least I did the longer stuff). Found that as the pieces increased in duration, better times were achieved with a lower setting. Since I don’t have the testing equipment available to regularly check lactate levels, V02 levels, and was only checking wattage and time components, we can assume that some of this is physiological fatigue, and some attributed to mechanical fatigue. Since mechanical fatigue happens quicker at higher fan settings it reinforces the fact that a lower fan setting should indeed be used for longer pieces (keep in mind a long piece to a rower isn’t 20 minutes, a long piece to a rower is 120 minutes all at the same stroke rate, same split, and within the same heart rate training zone). That being said, rowers aren’t going to be putting their fan settings up high for anything over 500 meters, regardless of level. It just becomes inefficient the longer the pieces are.

I’ve digressed a bit, but there have been a lot of studies showing that higher fan settings when used in conjunction with moderate to heavy volume have lead to back problems in rowers.

TL:DR
Fan setting for shorter pieces used by most people here will allow for better times due to the fact that you don’t actually know how to row and it makes it much easier to lock in and connect in a stroke.

For those who know how to row effectively and efficiently (note I do not consider many in the high school or collegiate levels to do this either) the higher fan setting can be restrictive because it causes faster mechanical and physiological fatigue. Instead of being limited more by bad technique (like your average gym-goer) the rower is limited by his strength.

Now for those in the upper echelons of rowing: Great technique, and deadlifting 3x bodyweight, 2.5X BW for squat, still see the same fatigue physiologically but much less so mechanically then at other levels of rowing and gym-goers. Most heavyweight male elite rowers do not test above a 145 digital rating. By test I mean a 2k as that is the standard olympic distance and major benchmark for a rower.

Hope that shed some light.

As far as my 1:24 I did that at a 10 fan setting. Probably should of done it at an 8 or 9. Fastest I’ve done at a 145 digital setting (5 on a new PM4 Model E) was 1:26.2. As I stated above, for short pieces the limiting factor for actual rowers is strength. It’s a fine line of getting more out of the machine at the cost of your body. If we were doing 360-410 meter pieces I’d absolutely keep it at a 10 as that’s where my body can go at max watt output before diminishing returns kick in from having the fan up that high.

Lastly, keep in mind that every erg is different due to usage. The more an erg is used, the more stretched out the band within the wheel gets. That means that on older ergs such as the model B and C you may put the fan setting at a 5 and have a digital rating of 110 while on a model D/E you may put the fan setting at a 5 and have a digital rating of 145. Always check the digital rating as it’s the only way to be sure you have what you like.

And yes I am a pompous asshole when it comes to rowing and the erg. I cannot begin to tell you how irritating it is to see someone at the gym hop on the erg, butcher technique, think they just did awesome when the freshman girls I coach pull harder because they actually have proper technique, all the while destroying the machine (did I mention I have to repair these at the gym I go to because no one else knows how) often-times resulting in it breaking much sooner and then never being replaced at most gyms. To me, seeing your average gym-goer on the erg is like someone doing curls in the squat rack, it fucking sucks.

Although I don’t have a huge post count here I consider lifting a way of life. I even write about it and try and shed some light to rowers who don’t think lifting will help them (or coaches thinking that) here:

http://rowingillustrated.com/liquidmercury/

IWhen I see moronic rowers act ignorant about lifting and land-training I probably come off as a pompous asshole to them too.

1 Like

[quote]frankjl wrote:
Tried it tonight and got a 1:38.8. This was brutal. I didn’t realize there was a damper setting and it didn’t ask me – anyone know what the default is?

FYI I’ll be embarrassed and humiliated if the default is 0.[/quote]

Default is 125-145 for heavyweight males (over 165 lbs). This usually, depending on the age of the erg, falls between a 3.5 and 5 on the fan setting. As I outlined in the post above, this can vary depending on the age and usage of the erg.

If you’re trying to check the digital reading:

On older PM2 models press the “rest” and “time” button at the same time. In the bottom right corner of the monitor the word “drag” will pop up very small. Row 5 strokes or so and it’ll show you that number and should remain pretty consistent.

On the newer PM3 and PM4 model ergs if you go to “more information” and “check drag setting” it will tell you after you pull on the erg for about 5 strokes.

Ok well I’d like to start out with thinking we misunderstood each other. I don’t think we disagree on much but just got off on the wrong foot.

I see what you mean with a volume of 100K+ a week. I’m gonna go out on a limb here and think that most of the people posting in here are doing a single 500 at the end of a workout… maybe a little more so do you think with that low of a volume its a bad idea to max out the resistance?

Im not a “rower” or a rowing coach or anything but I can sympathize with the bad form thing. I’m sure my form is far from perfect but I can even tell when people are doing it horribly and its annoying to me (especially if there isn’t a free machine for me to use at the time)

Ok so thats about all… so summarize: If you only for a 500m 4-5 times a week after lifting is possible back problems really an issue?

.greg.

As a lifter, with probably bad technique, I also appreciate your input on this LiquidMercury.
A few years ago my best 500m time, with a 10 damper, was 1:23.
Now, at a bwt of 138kg, I have been playing with 2km and did a best of 7:13.5 on Monday. Again with the damper on 10.
I keep the damper high to build lower back strength endurance, because I compete in strongman.
The conditioning is also overall good, but it is very easy to underestimate the effects of this sort of workout.
That 2km was all I did! And I was stuffed for some time - I am only at the start of a serious conditioning improvement phase!
I will definitely keep an eye out here for others who appreciate the Concept2.

[quote]gregron wrote:
Ok well I’d like to start out with thinking we misunderstood each other. I don’t think we disagree on much but just got off on the wrong foot.

I see what you mean with a volume of 100K+ a week. I’m gonna go out on a limb here and think that most of the people posting in here are doing a single 500 at the end of a workout… maybe a little more so do you think with that low of a volume its a bad idea to max out the resistance?

Im not a “rower” or a rowing coach or anything but I can sympathize with the bad form thing. I’m sure my form is far from perfect but I can even tell when people are doing it horribly and its annoying to me (especially if there isn’t a free machine for me to use at the time)

Ok so thats about all… so summarize: If you only for a 500m 4-5 times a week after lifting is possible back problems really an issue?

.greg.[/quote]

Erging with bad form makes about as much sense as deadlifting with bad form. Neither is a good idea and both are pretty much guaranteed to lead to back problems. Whether or not you are a “rower” or a powerlifter - try to do both with good form.

TNT

[quote]TNT-CDN wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
Ok well I’d like to start out with thinking we misunderstood each other. I don’t think we disagree on much but just got off on the wrong foot.

I see what you mean with a volume of 100K+ a week. I’m gonna go out on a limb here and think that most of the people posting in here are doing a single 500 at the end of a workout… maybe a little more so do you think with that low of a volume its a bad idea to max out the resistance?

Im not a “rower” or a rowing coach or anything but I can sympathize with the bad form thing. I’m sure my form is far from perfect but I can even tell when people are doing it horribly and its annoying to me (especially if there isn’t a free machine for me to use at the time)

Ok so thats about all… so summarize: If you only for a 500m 4-5 times a week after lifting is possible back problems really an issue?

.greg.[/quote]

Erging with bad form makes about as much sense as deadlifting with bad form. Neither is a good idea and both are pretty much guaranteed to lead to back problems. Whether or not you are a “rower” or a powerlifter - try to do both with good form.

TNT
[/quote]

I completely agree and never said anything to the contrary :slight_smile:

.greg.