T Nation

T-Nation Atheists


Just as a knee jerk reaction to another thread, here is this one...

...Will the tumbleweed blow through or will this just dissapear down a black hole of hijack?

Who knows.....




How about agnostic? Or those that think philisophically about whether or not God exists?

I think pure atheists are very few and far between.


Is there a question here?


I agree with Irish.. true Atheism is PROOF of the non existence of God. Got it? Lets see it.

Philisophically speaking, well, thats a new thread now isnt it. : )


I don?t believe in any God...

That not-believing has not changed my life...

Not even a little bit...

Not-believing is boring...


These definitions, like many religious terms I suppose, are based on a person's perceptions. I consider myself to be someone who "thinks philisophically about whether or not God exists" and I consider myself to be an agnostic. A true agnostic would say that I am wasting my time because I'll never find an answer.

Atheism actually means "without God." Some agnostics actually consider themselves atheists because they don't need a Supreme Diety in their lives and not necessarily that they are convinced that God does not exist - their lives are "without God."


I don't believe in any invisible entity having control over the universe or our lives.

I don't believe in miracles.

I don't believe in the supernatural.

I don't believe in an afterlife.

I don't believe I have anymore of a "soul" than an earthworm does.

I'm sure Jesus was a great guy, but just a human guy with some idealistic ideas on how people should live together. Same with Mohammed, Jehovah, etc.

Humans need to feel they are above the natural world and won't die and decompose and return to the earth like the rest of the organisms on this planet. They like to think they are superior so they have made up this whole "created in God's image" thing.

They fall easy prey to the promises of an afterlife and the idea that some super being is responsible for all the joy and pain in the world and that there is "a plan" for each of us. It's a great way to control the masses. And that is what religion is all about - control.

I believe in nature. I believe in a natural order of life. I believe in natural selection.

If you want to give that a name and worship it, more power to ya. But don't waste your time praying for me to some imaginary superbeing.

You live your life the way you want let me live mine the way I want.

Freedom of religion also includes freedom from religion.


What about souls? That's my great sticking point. Humans are above animals.

No other animal has the luck or curse of rational thought, no other animal knows that it will die. No other animal has morals, or the complexity that the human mind has.

There's the old thing about energy not being able to be destroyed- how would you account for the energy that is given off when a human dies?

What about accounts of ghosts and hauntings? There are things that happen that are just to strange to be explained away by science.



My favorite bumpersticker:

"Come the rapture, we'll have the earth to ourselves."

Seriously, I am of the opinion that religion is just an early marker of our progress (or lack thereof) as a species/civilization. I think that it will eventually die out, and we will benefit greatly from its demise, since it saps an incredible amount of emotional and even physical energy from people which could otherwise be used in a productive way.

I mean, instead of arguing about who's supernatural explanation of the world is correct, we could use our intellectual resources instead to improve our lives, the Earth, etc.

However, it is human nature to band together in groups, and so I truly feel that the only remedy for cultish behaviors (i.e. all religions) is education. It is no coincidence that as the world becomes more educated, more people question religion (and why fundamentalist groups resist having our children being taught critical thinking skills).

So, the bottom line is that people need to suck it up and not be afraid to look into the void. Sure, its black and empty and eternal, but that's how it was before you existed, too. Plus, its a hell of alot better than spending eternity with a bunch of goody-two-shoes bible-thumpers. he he he.


I agree with this. If you read Nietzsche, I think it was in "Thus Spoke Zarathustra", this is how he believed socialism came about. People waited for Jesus' return for a millenium and half. EVentually, they will pick up the flag and change the world themselves, once they figure out that he isn't returning.


I believe that I am an Atheist in the true sense of the word. I don't nor have I ever believed in God or any higher power. Depressing for some to fathom, but optimism is really one of the main keys to happiness anyhow; something which can be developed without God or believing that things will always "sort themselves out" or "happen for a reason."

And by the way, I don't believe that one needs "proof" that God doesn't exist to be an Athiest, the same way I don't expect someone who is religious to have proof that their God exists. Noone can prove it to me, but if they can prove it to themselves, good for them.


Throughout history religion has been a cancer on this planet. The common people are usually genuine and good but the ones atop the religious ladder find a way to start conflit with others.

I am a sceptic and I could never accept that there is an all powerful being that is invisible and decided to leave no trace of itself. And when you think of all the money that has changed hands as a result of religion it really seems like the perfect scam.


I have always been unable to reconcile all the pain and suffering (not always physical) caused by religion with the concept of a loving and forgiving God.

If there were to be a God, I think it would be extremely disappointed to be the cause of so much strife.

On the other hand, if any God preferred such suffering and strife, then I certainly wouldn't care to offer it my allegiance.


I know of no special energy given off by humans when they die. As far as I know it is mostly thermal, entirely explainable, and no different than that given off by any other animal.

Now, I am an atheist...and no, that does not mean I can prove that a god does not exist. Just as being a theist does not mean having proof that a god does exist. A theist believes in a god. An atheist does not believe in a god. Notice the difference between that statement and believes that there is not a god.

Now, I've looked for a god in a lot of places. I've read the books, I got the t-shirt. I've run through all the philosophical arguments. I have yet to find a good reason to believe.


True enough, humans are very evolved animals with an extremely complex mind. What was meant is that there is nothing beyond the physical basis of the mind, at least for some agnostics/atheists.

I, myself, don't feel the need to add in a soul when the human brain his sufficently complex to generate things like conscience, emotions, logic and so on and so forth.

As for the energy released when some body dies, well there is none. The human machine is no diffent then a car. Crash a car, it is broken an can no longer extract energy from its fuel to transform it into kinetic energy.

An animal is the same, you just go from a state of order towards chaos, increasing entropy. The only difference between the car and us, is that we rot way faster than the car rusts.

What is a more interesting question is how we've evolved brains that feel like somebody is ''taken away'' when we see them die. This is probably where some notions of souls emerged. We just look ''different'' when we are dead.

Anyway, for me religion kinda lost its meaning when you ask questions in 5th grade and the teacher can't answer, or when you just can't imagine a God like the one written in various Holy Books, or when you actually start learning about various religions and you realize that most stories in the Holy Books of Abrahamic religions are mostly taken from preexisting cultures, or have had additions according to the prevailing cultures/religions of the times.

Beyond that, it feels a bit weird when you read the holy books of the main monotheist religions and read about them and realize you could have done a better job yourself at creating one.

However, some more eastern philosophies are more in synch with what I believe humans should strive towards, the New Testament is also pretty good if you remove the religious stuff.

In the end, it would probably be easier if I could feel or ''know'' that there is a supreme being looking out for me, that has a plan for me and that's going to take me into his bosom upon death and give me everlasting joy and contentment...or send me to Hell for all eternity.

Ah, life!



I have a couple thoughts on this:


This idea comes from Josh McDowell's book "More than a Carpenter," and others have said it as well:

Jesus could not have possibly been just a "good guy." He claimed to be God! So it stands to reason that either he was: a)God, or b)a liar and a great deceiver of many!

This idea of him being somewhere imbetween is hogwash. The only other viable options are that he didn't exist at all (and thus the New Testament is pure fiction), or that what he said and claimed was misrepresented in the Bible.

Just a thought.


There is a growing body of evidence out there to consider when contemplating the existence of the afterlife. Near Death Experiences, "Angel Speaking," and the like are becoming more openly discussed than ever. Of course, you can find reasons not to take stock in any of these things, and that's just fine. But at least something to consider from my own perspective:

I have read many personal accounts of Near Death Experiences (at least 50 - they're all over the internet and many in hard copy as well), and they all have incredible similarities in how the affected person describes the experience.

The light in the tunnel is one example, and is as old as American History. A different form of language, one that is more "intuitive" and not spoken is another. Yet another is the freedom movement inherent to not having the burden of physical form.

My personal opinion is that one is easily discounted, but when everyone who's heart stops has the same experience, the descriptions carry more weight. You can argue neural activity in the absence of heart activity or whatever, but it's at least something to think about.

Again, discount this as you will. Just my two cents.


Nice. I'm begining to just despise organized religion. As Vroom said...the killings, murders, inqusitions, crusades, jihads, holocausts, genocides, and the general repression of knowledge for fear of a loss of power over the masses has disgusted me.

Many people are just all too willing to say, "Well that's how it is" and continue going to church. I just don't understand it.

I have looked into eastern religions a little bit. They seem the deepest, as its more about inner peace than worrying about what some child molesting priest thinks of you (I'm Catholic, and I think the events are horrifying that the Church covers up. Everyone of those motherfuckers should be put to death as far as I'm concerned.)

There are still tattered shreds of Catholicism holding on to me. Maybe its just the hope that this fucked up world isn't all there is. But I tell you, I haven't found enough reasons to believe in God, and alot more that have made me wonder.


I don't think we'll ever get rid of religion. The only people who might be presuaded to give up their beliefs are those people with moderate religious tendencies. The moderates are not the problem. It's the fundamentalist/extremist wackos that are the problem, and they won't give up their beliefs for anything.

Surveys suggest that a high percentage of U.S. citizens consider themselves Christians, which the fundamentalists just love to hear. However, it would be interesting to see that of those who consider themselves Christians, how many really, truly believe, and how many are just playing Pascal's Wager?


And you know this how? How do you know that animals don't know they can die? If animals don't know they can and will die then why do they avoid predation? You can try to say it is instinct and they are hard wired that way, but can that also apply to us? Many of our behaviors are based upon hard wired instinct that is the product of our genes.

What are you talking about? How are humans any different than anything else? All organisms are run on chemicals and energy. (Delta G, baby - 3 Kg/mole per hydrogen bond).

Because we want to believe. That's why.