T Nation



Spun off the T-Booster thread. List the things that seem to reduce Testosterone longer term, not just temporarily. If there is scientific proof behind your points that's all the better.

For me alcohol, fast foods, dehydration, lack of sleep, unchallenging work, not working out with heavy ass weights, no sunshine on my skin and lack of sex are T killers.


When you get older...like me, your body will convert T into estrogen. Studies are now showing that it isn't low T that causes prostate problems in men like once believed..It is elevated estrogen levels from the older male converting T to E...Sucks don't it?


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Shit, really?


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Hahaha, no - I meant the statistic. I always hear mixed stories about mobiles affecting us, but I mostly keep mine away from nether regions. Carefully unclips belt and throws it behind the cupboard.


Drugs, Rx or OTC can create problems with the ability of the liver to clear estrogens from the body. That includes excess alcohol consumption. The poster child for this is a drug that is generic OTC in the USA - cimetidine for heart burn. There are more effective drugs and it should not exist in the market place. These problems can be resolved with alternate drugs or simply stopping the drug. But if the result is gyno, surgery may be required.

All drugs that one takes should be reviewed for potential endocrine disruption. Search for metabolic pathways for drugs that involve the P450 liver enzymes. Looks for drugs that increase prolactin as that is very HPTA repressive.

I see young guys with permanent hypogonadism from deca only and some PH use. That is probably compounded by no or stupid PCT. Same can occur for some who only use a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor for hair loss.

Some drugs may make some feel off peak temporarily. Some of you are destined for permanent damage with some of these bad actors. Some guys have a genetic makeup that produces a brittle HPTA. But who here does not have a "can't happen to me" attitude.

The PH market place makes me sick and embodies all of the shit that drives anti-steroid legislation. The situation proves that people have to be protected [from themselves]. My perspective is unique because young guys who are learning after the fact, find me, seeking a way out. I have not seen any of these young men return to any state of normalcy without a TRT end point.

The legislative pressures have no effect on the PH market place and only make life worse for those who seek intelligent informed steroid use. And we get doctors who are afraid to do TRT as part of the result.


Sugar - acute increases in testosterone but the long term chronic problems it produces (eg fat) ensure a decrease in secretion




Type 2 diabetes causes testosterone levels to drop and stay low for the long term.. Also a low fat diet can cause decreases of up to 20%, but can be easily corrected and even raised by switching to a healthy high fat diet.

The real reason for keeping men in testosterone decline, as KSman states, is big Pharma. They still promote the idea to the medical establishment that prostate cancer and heart disease is fueled by testosterone. This guarantees that aging males will be kept in a state of decline so that they can be put on an expensive regimen of statins, pituitary hormone antagonists, dutasteride, antidepressants and Viagra, all for profits for Pfizer, GSK, Astrazeneca, et al.

It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to note that young men with high testosterone do not suffer from these "diseases". There is no money to be made in testosterone supplementation by Pharma. Testosterone cannot be patented, so there is no exclusive rights to market and sell for profit. The money is to be made by selling patented drugs, and keeping men in a state of decline until they need prostate and/or by-pass surgery.

Government is in bed with big Pharma worldwide. And that's the real reason that steroids are bad, kids.


Any studies out there researching statins (eg Lipitor, etc) and T-levels?


Pharma is trying to get docs to prescribe high dose statins to take cholesterol very low. Total cholesterol levels below 140 are associated with increased all cause mortality. Low cholesterol reduces all steroid hormones and that can make one feel like crap. Weak muscles, poor memory, confusion, hair loss, dry skin, lost libido, weakened immune systems and a host of other side effects are seen.

Statin drugs lower CoQ10 levels and increase death from congestive heart failure. Those deaths and other increased death rates from low cholesterol levels do reduce the cause of death pool, thus allowing for a lower reportable number of heart attacks and strokes. While many do not have any side effects at all, the lowered CoQ10 is a real problem.

Supplementing CoQ10 when on statin drugs should provide a better result as long as cholesterol levels are not too low.


You can already guess why there are no controlled studies on this. Not that I'm a conspiracy theorist or anything.

Here is a study in the Netherlands, that while there are only a few study subjects, indicates a trend in all statins:


Read the Discussion on the second page for the explaination of the cascade


Interesting read-- thanks.

On an unrelated note, awesome new avatar.


RANT ON MY FRIEND...that is some serious gospel right there and i wish i could hammer it into about 10 million people


Thanks, SD. The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand.


My ex-wife is a T-killer. :slightly_smiling:


Steely Dan! And good info Yo Momma, thanks.



KS and Yo,

Your rants are most informative and well written, mine is just a rant stating already acknowledged stuff.

Big Pharma puts a lot of pressure on the FDA and Congress directly and indirectly through 'donations' and payments to individuals and research groups. In reading different so called 'scientific studies', I always try to find where the money comes from. Drug companies are pushing for legislation and FDA rulings to make natural substances (herbs) that work unavailable OTC. Then Pharma can market a 'new' drug. Pharma and the AMA don't want us oldies taking anything that they don't approve.

KSman...I follow your posts and have been educated on T & E to the point where I can make knowledgeable requests from my doc.