T Nation

T + hCG Injections


#1

It's been said here that you shouldn't mix water with oil, so I assume you can't inject hCG along with your T.

Why is this? I think we all would like to do the minimum amount of sticking!


#2

I'm no expert, but in the sticky (I think), it's indicated that testosterone is most effectively injected into the muscle. hCG is most effectively injected into the fat. So one injection wouldn't cover it.

Now, I think you can inject Test into fat and hCG into muscle and there would still be an effect, but I'm not sure the quality of that effect.

Again, take all of this with a grain of salt, as I'm not on TRT and have only been looking into it a short while.


#3

The consensus seems to be that either IM or SC is OK for T. I forget which is recommended for hCG.


#4

I just started hCG myself so have been looking into this. The group I got mine from said it didn't matter either way. I did some research and it shows that a "spike" can be felt as hCG gets into your blood system faster IM. However, it seems to possibly meter out with steady doses if injected SC.

I just injected IM because it was simple and a few hours later I do feel a rush. I'll probably try it SC the next time. The rush isn't bad at all but I worry it will leave my system before my next injection in a few days.


#5

I'm disappointed that I haven't heard an authoritative 'yes or no' on this subject. There must be thousands of men on this protocol, do any of you inject both T and hCG at the same time?

I've just given myself my second hCG injection in a possibly vain attempt to see if my 61 year-old boys can produce more T on their own. I'll go back exogenous T soon if they can't, and I'd like to do both in the same injection if possible.

Surely, someone has mixed the two in one injection? (And sorry for calling you Surely!)


#6

Mixing oil and water is a bad idea in general. I have merely re-used the syringe from one to do the other and did not like the muck that formed in the syringe.

And from my understanding, the hCG molecule is pretty fragile (easily denatured). Further, I thought one doses hCG on the day BEFORE the test injection.

So why take the chance? If you're using a small gauge needle the sticks should be negligible (psychological aspect aside, of course, which I still have issues with on occasion)


#7

just do what the doc tells you to do. its really a minor problem


#8

The doc told me to go elsewhere for treatment. That's fine with me, because he caused me to research the subject, and find what I was likely to find after a chain of visits to specialists: either the T-Nation protocol, or another panel of tests from another specialist who may or may not prescribe it.

What T-Nation tells me to do is to stick myself every other day with hCG, then twice more a week with T. This is not a minor thing in my book. I don't freaking LIKE to stick myself. I got the advice not to mix the oil and water here, but no one has given a good reason yet for giving it. So what if the two don't mix? It works great on salads, why wouldn't it work okay in an injection?


#9

Its probably fine but the problem is that with T and hcg together, you may not have enough room in your SC depot to hold all the liquid. Depending on amounts, I can see how this would be an issue and might leave you with bumps and irritation.

I like to inject my T IM, and HCG should be done SC.

Really dude, injections are painless and take like 1 minute. I understand wanting to make things more efficient, but I can't understand the whiny ass attitude to taking a couple more minutes out of your week and experiencing what is equivalent of a finger prick in order to maintain good health.

Here is an idea--instead of waiting around for a month with your thumb up your ass hoping someone gives you an answer, why don't you try it out yourself. By this point, you would have been nearly 4 weeks in and could have gotten bloodwork soon to see if it corresponded to an improvement in your symptoms.


#10

VTBalla34, that's the only answer so far that makes any sense; 100ml would leave a big bubble under my skin, and I've already got some ugly bruises from the injections I've given myself. But it doesn't answer the oil and water question.

I don't believe your 'try it out yourself' answer is one you'd advocate for anyone but whiny, persistent people like me, so I've go nothing to lose by asking even more questions: Like what is this blood test you advise for improvements from hCG? I've been using my gonad-ometer.

What about sublingual administration of hCG instead? I don't recall if anything is said on this site, but several other sites say to just double the dose.

What if I upped the concentration? I have 10,000iu hCG, what problems would I run into if used 1/10 of the amount SC, only at full strength?

Anybody? Sticking my thumb up my ass hasn't helped much.


#11

On the contrary, I advise the "try it out yourself" approach for anyone that is curious if something will work, when the answer is not very clear cut.

I'm not sure why you're focusing so much on the "oil and water" aspect of it. It is common knowledge that they don't mix, but if they are both in your body, I suspect you would absorb both of them, as long as the storage room problem doesn't prevent that.

The bloodtest I'm talking about is just a Total T test. If you are getting stable levels with T only, hcg on top should increase it (assuming your nuts work). You should also notice an improvement in symptoms (otherwise, wahts' the point?). The size of your nuts would also be a good indicator.

Increasing the hcg concentration would be a viable option. I'm not sure what the potency would have to be before it stops being manageable, but I suspect it would be a function of the viscosity so as long as you can still shoot it through the needle, its probably fine.


#12

I tried the full-strength 10,000iu hCG, and you're right, It wouldn't draw thru my #29 needle. I also tried drawing some 1000 hCG plus some Cyp and they ran just fine together. There was no mixing in the syringe, and no muck as above reported.

I didn't use the "try it out yourself" approach because two of the people here advise not to do this. So the question stands unanswered.


#13

Not a squeak from our experts who advised against injecting "water" hCG and "oil" testosterone together! I find that 10,000 iu hCG diluted 4:1 runs just fine thru a 29 gauge needle, and adds just .10 ml to the volume of my 250 iu T.

Maybe there was some good reason for them to tell us not to do this. Maybe they'll answer now that I've injected it without any apparent problems?. They sure haven't given us any good reasons so far.


#14

Based on what's already been posted here you don't want advice - you want someone to tell you it's OK to mix them. Just freaking do it and stop posting about it because you clearly don't seem to be comprehending what others have written.

Look at it this way: if it was a good idea (or even an OK idea) don't you think you'd see a myriad of posts that speak to the practice?

If the needle jabs are that mush of an issue perhaps you should look into pellets or gel. I would of course go with the former, but it's an office visit procedure and they will poke a hole in you.


#15

If some hCG is sequestered in the oil it will be degrading to some extend before it gets absorbed = exposed to body temperature and other factors. Maybe not a big deal for hCG but hGH users would never risk potency loss.


#16

Thanks KSman. What amount of hCG would mix with the oil do you think? My uneducated guess is a very minimal amount. Same for Balla's "depot" answer. How much of the T ester, let alone the water-soluble hCG sticks around the sc injection site for any length of time?

Just trying to understand the issue why the two shouldn't be mixed.

johnny-longtorso, yes, needle jabs suck. I earned my aversion the hard way, and I doubt that anyone here has had to endure even a small part of the hell I've had to go thru. I'm as aware of creams and pellets and sub-linguals, etc. as anyone here. What I'm asking is for those who posted certain advice to justify it. Whether it is an okay idea or not is a different question.


#17

You are determined to not be swayed by what has been said. So you can be the lab rat, let us know how this works out over time.


#18

I would definitely not mix the two. Pinning IM and pinning SC are night and day different.


#19

No. I use what is said on this site as a guide, and verify as much as possible. When something doesn't make sense to me, I will question it. I see this as curiosity and useful discussion. Efforts to "sway" me are going nowhere, "everybody knows" is not a useful answer, and the answers so far have not been satisfying.

I replied to the "lab rat" issue earlier in this thread, I don't think being one is a good idea. But I did try it, and I did report my results back to the group. Issues I have with the other replies are documented in the thread as well. With that, I hope we can take the "you" and the "I" and the "me" out of this discussion and get back to the question:

Some in this group have made the statement that the oil of Testosterone, and the water of hCG should not be mixed in one injection. If anyone has a reason to either support or reject this, I for one would like to understand why.


#20

SC for both, post #3, 9, 11, & 16 in this thread.