T Nation

T-Dawg Q's for Chris S. or anyone

Hey Chris, did you think that eating up to 100g of carbs inhibited fat loss? I’m guessing these were all low GI carbs(greens & oatmeal)? And did you eat any carbs pre-workout, I’ve been on the normal T-Dawg for about a week and I had a better one day I ate an orange before I hit the weights. Thanks.

Keeping overall calories in mind of course, I think 100g of carbs per day on a T-Dawg type of plan is fine. I’ve done it with success. It’s easy because with 100g per day, you can have some oatmeal and a good PW drink. BTW, I’m currently experimenting with using Biotest Surge postworkout while keeping carbs under control (100 to 150)the rest of the day. Meals are done Massive Eating style, but with lower cals. I’ll post results later.

Chris, is it still fine to eat saturated fats(bacon, hambugers, cheese, beef jerky, etc.) with 100g of carbs? I think I might try it Massive Eating style, would it be better to incorporate healthier fats? Where is the cutoff where you should worry about fats(Mass. Eat.) and not worry(T-Dawg or Atkins)? Thanks.

Just puttin’ it to the top.

Saturated fat isn’t quite as bad as the media makes it out to be, but yes, intake should be kept under contol. With the Anabolic Diet, DiPasquale didn’t care much about where the fat came from- bacon, eggs, and lots of red meat were recommended. I think this is okay for most healthy people for a short term diet. I wouldn’t eat this way 24/7/365. TC and I fixed this problem with our T-Dawg diet.

These days when dieting, I’m more moderate all the way around. I don’t keep carbs ridiculously low but I do keep them under control and greatly limit my intake of bread and simliar foods. (In fact, I haven’t had cereal in over a year. Cereal is a phsyique killer in my opinion, though some Fiber One in skim milk is okay occasionally.) My carbs come from MRPs, oatmeal, a little fruit, salads, and my current addiction- fat free ranch dressing.

As for fat intake, I like a good steak and usually eat a couple of whole eggs per day. I also snack on nuts and use a lot of natural peanut butter. Then I supplement with fish oil caps (9 per day right now)and flax oil, although I hate that shit.

I’d also suggest you adopt JB’s meal combining ideas from Massive Eating. I really think he’s on to something there.

As for carbs before training, with the T-Dawg diet they have to be limited since you want most of the carbs to come in your postworkout drink. When you bump it up to 100g of carbs per day, then yes, I’d prefer to get a serving of oatmeal in me sometime during the day before my evening workout. This helps beat the “flat” feeling caused by most low carb diets. Hope this helps.

Chris, I also have oatmeal in the morning and try to limit my other daily carbs to post-workout. It’s amazing how much more energy I have and I can actually tolerate some cardio and a greater volume of training. It’s something for other people to consider. Rather than consume zero carbs and fight the fatigue, eat the breakfast oatmeal and the post-workout nutrition. One hundred carbohydrates are only 400 calories and I can knock out twice as much on the elliptical machine in an hour or less…more so when combined with weight training. I am in ketosis most of the time as well.

Chris, I assume since you are using 9 total caps that you arent reaching the 6-10grms of EPA? Or are yuo using a very concentrated source?

I’m also curious about the fish oil caps. I have to take 18-20 caps a day to get 6+ grams of DHA/EPA.

I’m also eating tuna almost daily and using the Coromega fish paste product I wrote about in the last “Stuff we Like” column. But no, I’m probably still not getting enough according to guys like Berardi. I’ve been bumping up the number of fish caps I use over the last couple of months and will continue to do so.

i agree about the oatmeal in the morning. i’m on a modified massive eating plan. the only carbs (besides veggies) that i take in all day are oatmeal in the morning and my PW drink. if i skip the oatmeal, i’m starving in no time and end up eating more total calories.

Hey Chris, What is wrong with eating cereal for a carb source(as long as they are vey low in sugar)? Maybe this is were I am screwing up, I eat cereal 4 x a day with my mrp’s. I add Grape nuts to my Grow! and Rice Krispies to my Met-Rx, and it taste so damn good! I add just enough so I have about = carbs and protein. And then I also have a few protein+fat meals a day.

If you’re not sensitive to carbs and are keeping portions in control, then some cereal is okay. But I’d think you’d do much better if those carbs came from oatmeal (old fashioned style, unflavored- not that finely ground, sugar filled flavored stuff designed for kids and girls :slight_smile: ). I remember reading somewhere that even “healthy” cereals like Special K have a worse GI than white bread. Grape Nuts really has a ton of carbs as I recall, more than even sugary kid cereal.

Try to get your carbs from some other sources for a few weeks and see if you notice a difference. The way you’re doing it isn’t “bad” really, but I think there’s a better way. BTW, one reason I advise against cereal is that it tends to replace a high protein breakfast, which I think is important to end any possible night time catbolism. I think everyone needs to get a quick 40 grams of protein first thing in the morning. This is why I have breakfast twice. A Grow! shake soon after waking. Then an hour or two later, I have a protein plus fat meal like chicken and eggs.

I’ve gotta chime in and second what Chris said about cereal. Over the years I’ve determined that I’m terribly carb-sensitive, and one of the foods I dropped a few years ago was cereal, something I’d consumed whopping great amounts of my entire life. I loved cereal. Even with protein powder mixed in, using skim milk, with flax seeds crushed and sprinkled on, I still get gigantic surges of insulin when I consume cereal, and am very hungry for more carbs soon afterwards. Kinda like eating pizza and drinking beer. Like Chris suggests, drop the cereal for a few months and see what happens to you.


Bread is the other food I almost kicked (other than what’s wrapped around my Burger King), but that’s another story.

Speaking of cereal being high GI, I’m assuming it’s ok to use post workout. In fact I’ve seen posts where people advocate things like Corn Flakes after a workout to take advantage of the high GI. I think Poliquin even advocated this. I’ve been drinking a shake after workout and although it tastes great I want to start utilizing whole food more to control hunger.

At any rate I bought some Kashi yesterday after being amazed at the low calories and carbs. 2 full cups has a total of 26 carbs along with 6 grams of protein, basically no fat and zero sodium. They are puffed wheat so obviously a lot of that is air, however with a cup of skim milk and a few packets of equal I found it a nice treat and it was very filling. I of course had some chicken along with it to get my protein, I’d never eat cereal alone.

Next week I am hunkering down on my diet. I've been doing a 40/30/30 pro/carb/fat plan for the last 6 weeks and have done very well. However the last 2 weeks have slowed significantly so I'm looking to get serious with diet and do my cardio which I haven't been doing much of. I intend to do the massive eating plan, doing probably 5 meals a day. I plan on doing 30 min of cardio first thing in the morning on empty stomach. Then I'll have a pro+carb meal, oatmeal most likely, then a pro+fat for lunch and a pro+fat for preworkout. Post workout will be my 2nd and last pro+carb meal and I plan on enjoying some high GI carbs at this time seeing that it's the only safe time to eat them. Cereal seems to fit the bill very well here. Of course my final meal of the night will be pro+fat.

My biggest change will be carb choices. Up until now I’ve been lenient and haven’t specifically chosen low GI stuff. I eat a lot of whole wheat bread amongs other things, while nutritious it still ranks as fairly high GI. I plan on cutting this out entirely and focusing on my oatmeal, green beans, maybe some sweet potato, etc… I hope to do well with this plan I would just like to enjoy whole food post workout and a high GI food like cereal with skim milk and protein sounds good.

Ok, thank’s Chris and John. I have 18 day’s of dieting coming up next week so I will skip the cereal and try the oatmeal(never tried plan oatmeal, sounds kinda nasty). Should I cancel my chicken sandwich and pretzels that I have for lunch too?

Plain oatmeal is great once you get used to it. I make mine in the microwave. Add cinnamon(no milk and butter!) or my favorite, a scoop of Advanced Protein or Grow! Yes, cancel the chicken sandwich and kill the petzals. (Or were you just joking about that?) The rule is “clean, unprocessed carbs and MRPs”. That’s where your carbs should come from. Think oatmeal, veggies, protein shakes, and maybe a little fruit. (Of course, other stuff will have a carb or two, like eggs, but don’t worry about that.) Fresh strawberries are pretty low in carbs and the little seed things keep your pooper going. They’re a nice treat on an otherwise bland low carb diet.

Generally speaking, I avoid breads, cereals and pasta, but I’m pretty carb sensitive.

Isn’t all that food bland and repetitive? I’ve been trying to do massive eating with a calorie deficit, and it’s hard because food just tastes so damn good. What do you do if you go out to dinner at some fancy place? Do you just eat the food and forget the diet for one meal?

Yes, diet food can get bland really easy. Suck it up, sissy. (Just kidding.) Obviously there’s an element of will power here, though.

Massive Eating is really easy to use at restaurants, more so than any other diet I’ve used. Here’s what I do: first, I do have sort of a semi-free meal. In other words, I might be a little bad and get too much fat and carbs in the same meal. But I make up for it by skipping the extras: dinner rolls, breadsticks, and dessert. Last weekend I had steak and instead of the usual sides like potatoes and fries, I had them bring me two salads. Weekend before that I ate at Olive Garden. No cheesecake and no bread and dipping sauce, but I did splurge a little on some sort of seafood pasta dish, something I’d never eat during the week.

If a “free meal” per week will keep you on your diet and sane the rest of the week, then have one, but don’t go overboard. I used to do this and it’s counterproductive in the long term. Bill Roberts also points out that your weekly (as opposed to daily) caloric intake should be considered. A really evil free day could really screw up your diet for the week. (And yes, that includes sucking down 2000 calories of alcohol Friday night!) A semi-evil free meal should be okay once per week, though.

Hey, your oatmeal, doesn’t have to taste bland. I’ve been eating whole oats for 3 years straight instead of cereal. What I do is add cinamon(like chris) but I also add sucralose. Its the same sweetener thats in Grow!. Its got zero carbs and zero calories. Makes cottage cheese and plain yogurt taste good too. That way you won’t go crazy with your sweet tooth and you’ll still keep all the refined carbs out of your diet. Its usually found in the supermarket as “Splenda.”

Splenda eh. Well, so far every artificial sweetener that I’ve tried about makes me wana puke. However, I do love Grow!! I guess I’ll give it a try. Thank’s for the tip.