T Cypoinate Once a Week vs Twice a Week

My Doc offered me Natesto. Seems to mimic normal human release fairly well…

For bodybuilding purposes, steady levels are best. But it’s not anything like normal male physiology with pulsation.

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Why not low dose Test Prop 2X daily, every 12 hours @ 7.5 mg to 10 mg for a total of 15 to 20 mg, daily, similar to twice daily transcrotal cream or Test U injections or pellets continuously releasing a low dose of T?

My thinking is, since it’s more or less in and out of your system, emulating in a fashion, the circadian/pulsatile pattern of endogenous testosterone, as the level begins to decline, you do another injection, emulating another pulse. I understand pharmacokinetics don’t follow logic but been on Test E on and off since 2013, different doses, injection frequencies, IM/subq. Still ISO of my morning wood and some degree of reliable erections. Compounded cream on the scrotum only elicited prostate discomfort. Nothing to lose.

How quickly and negatively I react. Either the grapeseed oil or benzyl alcohol. I forget until the next time I try it. Became irritable, nasal congestion and generally feeling lousy. I’m going to move on, inspired by @roscoe88, trying a large bolus of Test E(250 or 300 mg) either every 10 days or 14 days.

What an un-needed pain in the ass

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Agree.

This is the route I was about to take before I heard about Jatenzo.

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@systemlord

Have you had liver values tested recently? Just curious about the jatenzo so far.

I know it bypasses the liver on the first run of excretion, but my dr. still had his concerns.

My ALT tested recently at 19 and was a few points higher before going on Jatenzo.

It’s the same with prostate cancer and TRT, it’s confirmation bias. So because other oral T options before it did cause liver toxicity, so to must Jatenzo.

It only took me 10 seconds to find this on the internet. This is a clinical trial and is what lead to the FDA approving Jatenzo for the treatment of hypogonadism.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1756287220937232

Oral TU was not associated with liver toxicity nor did it cause an elevation in high-sensitivity C-reactive protein or lipoprotein-associated phospholipase A2 (cardiovascular safety biomarkers) after 365 days of therapy.

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I think the main issue with something like that for me is that it goes against what I’m trying to accomplish since it’ll give me much more stable levels.

I think the negative feedback loop on my HPTA causes me a lot of problems, perhaps more than most people (or maybe all other things being equal I suffer a greater degree of shutdown than most), but I don’t think the shutdown is a binary thing, and I have a theory that part of the reason I felt better on Prop was due to a lesser degree of HPTA shutdown than on longer esters (especially pinned daily) where my levels were at the top of the range pretty much 24/7.

So by injecting Prop 2x/day I would spend a lot more time at the top of the range, which is what I’m trying to avoid at least for now.

Of course all of this is barely educated speculation and I could be completely wrong, but it’s a hypothesis I want to test by keeping track of my neurosteroid production as well as LH/FHS values on a shorter ester protocol. We’ll see…

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I also do twice weekly. My protocol was 200 mg. That puts my free t to 31 range (5-27( and total was 870 range( …- 850) on through. But many people on forums told me oh no it’s too high it means your peak is supra etc. So I reduced the dose to 150. 75 2x weekly. What I have found out with that new protocol is I lost size and and strength. I am not Euphoric anymore and have those dumb overthinking about things in life again.
My libido is still the same but when it comes to sex I lost motivation. Very odd.

@highpull on Internet and also ksman recommend to do twice weekly since it’s easier to time the AIs. Would you second that?
What do you recommend your patients when they are on a 200 once weekly protocol and they want to take adex. 2 x weekly. Some say since the levels drop after a couple days it’s hard to dose the second tab of ai hence why twice weekly injection is better. Really confusing.

Would love to hear your recommendation

As long as your hemoglobin is within range, and your other biomarkers are healthy, there’s nothing wrong being a little bit over the top.

I’m at 1052 ng/dL and Free T at 33.6 ng/dL (7.0 - 36.7 ng/dL) calculated and SHBG 17. My endo only cares about my hemoglobin and get phlebotomized every month.

My peak (@ 2 hours) is a bit higher and measured at 4 hours after morning dose.

I just found out through the pharmacist who said my insurance company is billed for Jatenzo at $3000 dollars a refill!

TRT just became very profitable for big pharma!

This may be more profitable than pellet therapy.

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You would probably do very well on Jatenzo which has an 8 hour half-life and is why it’s dosed every 12 hours. I recently tested LH and FSH and testing was limited, both showed <1.0.

I was hoping for a little more accuracy but I think Kaiser labs are a bit limited. I’ll try LabCorp and see where these are.

If I remember correctly, testosterone propionate half-life is around 2.5 days and not 4.5 days like previously thought.

Not particularly, there is no one size fits all approach.

Some take one dose a week, 12-24 hours after the injection. Some take two, with the second dose 3-3 1/2 days after the first one.

Not many use an aromatase inhibitor, less than 5% off the top of my head.

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The operative word there is “billed”. How much of that bill is paid?

Regardless, nice for you it is covered. I suppose you have a small copay? I’m sure it is profitable for the manufacturer at any rate.

A few dollars at the most.

I’m sure there’s some haggling back and forth.

The manufacturer, Clarus Therapeutics, Inc is selling the Jatenzo patent, and filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection and laid off 40% of it’s work force because the company lost money launching Jatenzo at the start of the Covid 19 pandemic.

I was told by Clarus Therapeutics, Inc that in areas where Kaiser is dominant, Jatenzo isn’t doing well as Kaiser Permanente is about affordable cheap health care and keeps costs down.

Competition and generics will drive prices down.

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Just one dose of test prop and my blood pressure went into the red zone and I don’t have hypertension. 140/70 to 150/70. Felt bad and scared for about 4 days. I’ve previously speculated whether it’s the grapeseed oil or benzyl alcohol but it’s irrelevant, now. Doing 20 mg IM of test E 3X weekly.

Though I had seen references to the negative feedback loop on the HPTA, I didn’t understand it. Suddenly, it seems, I began to get it.! Thus, low dose 3X weekly instead of 100 mg 1X per week. At trough I was 889, with free at 240. My peak was probably between 1100 and 1200. I don’t look forward to 6 to 8 weeks of maybe, possibly, LOL, as I wait to see if erections become more frequent, reduction in brain fog, weight loss around the waist, but those are the ‘rules’.

Jatenzo looks soooo Interesting. SL - I remember reading you had to be around 400 TT to feel normalized and at this moment you go around 1000 and from what I read, doing very well. I wish such med to be available in Portugal. It seems to deliver all the goods with great control and ease of use.

I’m strong AF and getting stronger! It will only get better and better as time goes on. I have energy to keep going even after 1-2 hours at the gym.

My day off, I cycle to the beach, swim for a few hours, cycle back home (10 miles RT), shower and go to the gym.

This is life at 50!

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This is great, I’m glad you finally found what works for you.

You probably answered that somewhere, but how long have you been on this specific protocol? Do you feel stabilized now?

Also, are there currently equivalent alternatives from compounding pharmacies? It seems the cost of Jatenzo is prohibitive if insurance doesn’t cover it