T Nation

T-Bol 1st Cycle: Couple Questions


Hey everybody, so I’m new the forums and looking for a little advice from the vets.
I’ve been doing research for quite some time, followed many logs, yadayada and I feel its time I myself give it a go.

About me: A little more than 4 years lifting background (hs and now very consistent), almost 21, usually eat 2500 for maintenance
Stats: 5’8 157 (don’t know bf or measurements quite yet)

Goal:
Shredded brahh.
My goal is to test a fairly mild AS and see my body’s reaction. I’m looking to gain 10 lean lbs (fingers crossed) while cutting to 5-6%

My plan is:
1 week before - milk thistle
6 week x 60mg/day OT (only)
Cals - around 3-4k depending on my reaction, Protein probably at 300/d
PCT - clomiphine, binge eating, resume training lol (honestly need suggestions or a good research article lol)

Training:
2 weeks: Higher reps (8-10)
1 week: Lower reps (4-6)
Repeat

List of supps:
Liver or Organ Support/Milk thistle (not sure which livsupp - recommendations?)
ZMA
Magnesium/Calcium/Multivit
Taurine :wink:
Protein (no shit) - dutch fudge wassup

Please critique my plan so I can make the best out of it! I plan on starting in about 3 weeks. I ordered Clomid for pct even though there is really no need for a PCT but like I said, I’m way open to suggestions.

Basically would love some suggestions on:
PCT - is taking Clomid useless? besides side effects from the Clom, I don’t see it hurting, does anybody? Dosing Suggestions?
Liv Supp?
Can someone give me a sample of any changes they make in regards to training and rep-range on zee juice?
- Drop sets, training everything twice a week, etc.
Are my goals reasonable for said cycle?

Thanks in advance!,

J

Use test.

Do real steroids. Also you’re 157lbs brah if you ain’t shredded at that weight, the way of the shred is not the way for you.

Yeah get shredded at 150lbs, lol. That way you won’t have buy and start wearing men’s medium size tshirts. Believe me I wish I could still shop in the teen boys section because its embarrassing to have to shop in the big n tall section too find shirts my arms will fit in…so no one ever

[quote]lbraga wrote:
the way of the shred is not the way for you.[/quote]

LOL!

But anyway, OP like many have mentioned you are not experienced enough to start AAS, also your questioning of PCT leads me to think not learned enough either. PCT is absolutely necessary after any run of AAS or prohormones.

Tbol is a good steroid, but without an aromatising steroid you will probably feel like shit, something to think about.

SB

nick - everybody says that! i know i know… my main concern is hair loss however which can be a gnarly side. thank you for your input

[quote]lbraga wrote:
Do real steroids. Also you’re 157lbs brah if you ain’t shredded at that weight, the way of the shred is not the way for you.[/quote]

lol I was shredded at 142 (8 pack - no pics cuz im a tard) and bulked for a while till 170 (yikes!) So I cut to an ave. weight of 157. what do you recommend? I have the OT/Clomid on the way, but that doesn’t mean I have to start quite yet. thanks in advance

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

But anyway, OP like many have mentioned you are not experienced enough to start AAS, also your questioning of PCT leads me to think not learned enough either. PCT is absolutely necessary after any run of AAS or prohormones.

Tbol is a good steroid, but without an aromatising steroid you will probably feel like shit, something to think about.

  • I appreciate your concern, its still a battle for me mentally. I guess my main question about pct then is about dosing, I’m sure I could stop being lazy and research a tad more, but any thoughts? lol :stuck_out_tongue: I do know that a pct should be taken with aas/ph, true, but as I’m sure you know I’ve seen ppl who say eff the pct. Just lookin for advice!

Also guys, I lifted 2 and a half years in hs, but then broke my leg, collar bone, tore ligaments on both feet, sprained back (recently),… needless to say It put me back a bit. I have been lifting now again for 1.5+ years. Was going to use it for a little sped up rehab (for my back) as well.

/

If you want to get shredded just improve your diet, steroids really aren’t worth it if you want to achieve something thats easy as fuck at your age and weight. It’d be a big waste of money.

Alrighty you want my advice then here it is.

You are going through what we ALL went through, you put in the work in the gym, you think you’re eating healthy but the results are SOOO FUCKING SLOW to come by. I know I know, and trust me actually we all know. The thing though is that you need to get a little closer to your natural potential otherwise your overall (future, like the FINISH LINE, the most jacked you’ll ever be) potential can be greatly diminished. Look up a video by Dave Tate on human potential, that shit is hallmark for convincing weaklings not to hop on the needles.

Having said all of that, I know you’re probably gonna do it anyway so you might as well do it less wrong. Here’s what I would do if I were you (actually it’s not cuz I wouldn’t be juicing at 157lbs but again, this is constructive advice):
-12 weeks of 500mg Test Cypionate, with
-.25 Adex EOD (bump up if needed),
then after the 12th week you take 2 weeks off and do standard clomid+nolva PCT (100/100/50/50. 40/40/20/20)

But seriously, think long and hard about this. (pun intended)

DYEL? You don’t need AAS, you need to learn how to eat. Your not lean but your not fat, not trying to be a dick but you need to focus on eating and lifting because your not ready to do any form of AAS. And a tbol only cycle is stupid as well

Also why’d you crop the girl out :wink:

Ibraga - Ill definitely check it out. also preciate the sample cycle. Ill take all this into account. everybody keeps saying to take it with test for obvious reasons but I don’t really wanna risk the hair loss at my age. once again thanks man

BUDs - love the name, wonder where it comes from :wink: I lift, thank you for your concern. I have only been lifting a year and a half straight (not including highschool). I’ve been lean, but when I started bulking, lets just say I didn’t clean bulk so I’ve been doing a little cut. I had a couple injuries in this time (back sprain/ pulled shoulder out of place - reoccurring injury) and I’m trying to build some lean muscle in said body parts now that they are healed. Why do you say tbol only is a stupid cycle? Just curious of your opinion. i know i wouldn’t get as much muscle but its once again the hair factor and I would like to do an oral only cycle my first. I’ve read a lot of controversial debates on that subject…
side note - I’ll crop her back in if it makes my e-penis that much bigger…

Buds/jay - I do know how to eat haha. I did my first dirty bulk cycle after dieting for a while and it got out of hand. From My diet is back on track:
chicken, turk, egg whites, tuna, oats, sweet pots, veggies/fruits, avocados, peebs, brown rice, coconut oil, ben & jerries

Buds can jump in here but let me try and put why he said Tbol only cycle is stupid into perspective. Don’t get me wrong I like tbol and use it with other compounds.

If your goals are aesthetic as you stated then yes tbol only cycle is dumb. On its own it will yield little to zero body composition changes. Its the equivalent of taking one bullet to a gun fight, you aint going to get very far. Its the icing on the cake but not the cake.

Tbol only cycle for a competitive cyclist, mma fighter, etc has its place because they compete on performance not shape and size, make sense?

Also don’t assume your hair will be fine on tbol. Its has low androgenic properties but the chance off hair loss is still there. Its rare but if you carry the genetic hair loosing traits it can amplify it. But judging by your “Bieber” like head, I think you’l be fine.

This is all moot however because you need to eat, train and put your time in under the bar. You should be able to naturally reach 190lbs with a little bit of work. Then run some gear.

You should set a set goal and decide you will not touch the gear until then. Like Popeye said, I think 190-200 is a good starting point.

well on that note, I assume getting to 190 would be about 2-3 more years of work, so idk if they would still be good…

[quote]J.Anabolica wrote:
well on that note, I assume getting to 190 would be about 2-3 more years of work, so idk if they would still be good…[/quote]

you claim you can bulk easy, whats the problem? You’re clearly looking for an easy way out… it shouldn’t take you 3 years to gain 35 pounds. 1 year max

[quote]Jaycuts wrote:

[quote]J.Anabolica wrote:
well on that note, I assume getting to 190 would be about 2-3 more years of work, so idk if they would still be good…[/quote]

you claim you can bulk easy, whats the problem? You’re clearly looking for an easy way out… it shouldn’t take you 3 years to gain 35 pounds. 1 year max [/quote]

LOL. please show me a source that says 35 pounds of lmm is reasonable to gain in a year. please.

Don’t be afraid to put on some fat to bulk and build mass. You can lean bulk when your up to a decent size and weight. 35 lbs isn’t that hard in one year. Sure you will put on some fat but you will put on much more muscle then if you tried to stay lean the whole time.

Bulk all winter, cut for summer. Easy as that

[quote]BUDs wrote:
Don’t be afraid to put on some fat to bulk and build mass. You can lean bulk when your up to a decent size and weight. 35 lbs isn’t that hard in one year. Sure you will put on some fat but you will put on much more muscle then if you tried to stay lean the whole time.

Bulk all winter, cut for summer. Easy as that

[/quote]

This was my plan before I ever bough the gear but idk its tempting to jump into. Most likely will follow this due to the fact that I’m not 21 yet as well. Bulkin 250+ ova should add a nice 25 pounds in a year. I know I’ll get flamed for wanting to stick to tbol only cycle after, but hey the more haters, the more input.
Thanks Buds