T Nation

Syria, Here We Go Again


Had this deal with Erdogan not been made, was there ever a chance the U.S. could leave without giving the Turks and Saudis the opportunity to exact revenge on the Kurds?


Will we ever be able to kill all those assholes? Are we resigned to forevermore killing the Middle East. Hearts and minds?


Well, they want to kill us, a lot. So we can either kill them there or wait until they kill some of us here and then go kill them there.

Unleas you have a plan to make them not want to kill us.


Don’t think of “Syria” as a country. Think Shiites and Sunnis, with fake-Shiites (Assad’s Alawites) and Kurds (who despite being Sunni are on average too socialist and secular) being a separate faction.

This is a fight that’s been going on for 1300+ years. Iran is trying to create the famous “land bridge” of the Ferile Crescent, connecting all Shiite lands from the Zargoz mountains all the way to the Mediterranean. They’re broadly opposed by the Sunnis (Turkey and the House of Saud), each vying for dominance among Sunnis - Erdogan wants to rebuild the Ottoman Empire but with a stronger religious bent while the Saudis want to push their Salafi agenda and establish a Caliphate.

While ISIS is an apocalyptic death cult from a Western perspective, it’s also a nasty Sunni militia with a revolving door policy with other jihadi groups, notably JaT and the Turkish-backed “rebels”.

Mark Ames speculates (probably correctly) that sacrificing the Kurds is a deal to help MBS.

Here’s an old article that pretty much explains the basics.

Yes. For Sunni end-of-days demented ramblings you’re a target regardless of who you are or where you are. You can’t explain terrorist attacks in Sweden with foreign policy. Everything you (personally) do is considered an affront to their god.


Didn’t this pretty much keep us in Iraq? The “at least we’re killing them over there” argument?


I’m thinking don’t get involved in their killing each other.


The Kurds will hate America. They are already calling us traitors and never to be trusted.

Read an article about how Turkish troops and Syrian allies will fill the void left when the Americans leave. Only problem is Americans are not slaughtering the Kurds. One can bet Turkey and their allies will.

If anyone was outraged when Obama left Iraq(honoring Bush’s treaty or not, it happened under his watch and he got blamed for creating ISIS by doing so) how can they agree with this move?


In that case the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps would burn down Riyadh, as Saudi soldiers are too scared of…you know…actual combat as shown in their pathetic performance against literally barefoot Houthis despite their billions in hardware. The Saudis had to provide a billion-dollar loan to Omar al-Bashir to provide them with Sudanese mercenaries to do the actual fighting in Yemen.

And the cornerstone of US foreign policy for decades is that the scenario outlined above must not happen under any circumstances.

Edit: We have an ISIS Caliphate, folks! That’s what one gets when the Saudis invest money.


Trump’s arrogance is only matched by his ignorance.

MBS and Putin are laughing over some Vodka and Russian Hookers…


I guess they’ll have to find their own bravery… If they can’t, I guess it wasn’t worth the blood. Certainly not ours.


Intellectual dissonance to think we can create our safety boundaries half way around the world (indeed throughout the entire world), in countries that hate America, but it is too much of a process to guard your own physical space.


No they wont. If you sign a very vague letter of intent for arms purchases, the Trump administration will have your back, no matter what.

And Saudis are acting accordingly. Why do the fighting when the Americans can do it for you?


Correction, they should have to find their own bravery.


Correct me if I’m wrong, but America has more time/effort/manpower/cash/skill guarding our physical space than any country on the planet


It’s a little late for that.


Oh, maybe if we actually stopped picking and choosing, threatening, and coddling they’d be mostly satisfied with killing each other until the end of days. If not, and instead, they are simply more free to sneak across our borders or overstay on visas…Maybe then supporting targeted travel restrictions and increased immigration security IS the answer.


So why is America overrun to the tens of millions of illegal inhabitants and an endless supply of drugs?

Catch and release, overactive leftist judicial activities, corrupt political operatives that ignore or hinder existing legislation, political correction swaying dimwits who can’t see the end results of allowing the hundreds (thousands?) of millions who would happily get here as quickly as possible if they could?

Why write reams of laws, spend trillions of dollars on “border security”, if it really is nothing so far as being part of what makes a country, a country.


Demand. You guys want drugs and illegals. How many businesses employ illegals? They wouldn’t be coming if there was no chance of employement… The same with drugs.


Sure, maybe… Maybe if we withdrawal from the region ISIS will regroup and find a way to detonate a dirty bomb in Manhattan.

Travel restrictions and increased immigration security should also be a part of the conversation. No argument from me there.


Weak ass southern (Republican dominated) states?

Because Americans can be lazy stupid people?

So you’re of the opinion that pulling back troops from Syria, for example, is (can) result in a direct hit to immigration? Then list things exclusively associated that won’t be fixed by pulling back said troops?

I guess I’m confused as to

We have a more in depth, manned, expensive and robust process of guarding our physical space than anyone on the earth, right?

I mean I guess I could see us losing on a metric or 2, but certainly not all in.