T Nation

Switching to Test Prop after Mediocre Results from 40mg Cyp EOD

So, I’m still ready to give up on TRT I’ve had no changes in mood, labido, that zest for life everybody raves about I’m currently on 40mg/.2ml test cyp200 EOD with no real tangible results or changes to preTRT days. I’m currently switching to 20~mg test prop EOD starting tomorrow and wanted to see if I’m making the right choice. As my other option was daily scrotal cream which does not interest me in the slightest. My most recent trough draw that is leading me down the prop path.
Testosterone,Free and Total
Testosterone, Serum 487 ng/dL 264 - 916 01
Free Testosterone(Direct) 20.3 pg/mL 8.7 - 25.1 02
DHEA-Sulfate 320.1 ug/dL 138.5 - 475.2 01
TSH 1.020 uIU/mL 0.450 - 4.500 01
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.5 ng/mL 0.0 - 4.0 0
Estradiol, Sensitive 14.1 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 12.2 Low nmol/L 16.5 - 55.9

Currently on 50mg DHEA
5000 IU D3
300 HCG EOD
2-3G Omega 3s

Old TRT Regement 40mg Test cyp EOD
New 20mg Test prop EOD or 10mg ED depending on how I tolerate it

I don’t think switching esters is going to fix your problem. Maybe you should look someplace else like your thryoid. If your thyroid is crapped out TRt doesn’t work and it sure looks like trt is not working for you.

I’d have to dig up my last thyroid panel from a few months ago but all the thyroid numbers looked good as I recall.

It’s easy to see why you don’t notice any benefit from TRT, your SHBG is very low (9 nmol/L previously) and your ability to bind androgens is compromised, you require injections every day and is the only path forward.

I never seen any of your thyroid hormones tested, Free T3 (not TSH) speeds up every cell in your body, increases metabolism and body temperatures. TSH correlates poorly with symptoms, Free T3 shows what’s going on at the cellular level.

If you can’t make 10-12mg daily cypionate injections work for you, nothing will. If your quality of sleep is poor or fragmented, you can expect exhaustion, no libido, no benefits from TRT.

How long are you spending on each protocol?

Last protocol lasted roughly 4 months this one is going to be 6~ weeks with basic follow up labs T, T free, E2, DHT Last thyroid panel as follows
I can pull up my labs a bit later but T3/Rt3/T4/TPO

Rt3 18.7 ng/dl
T3 4.1 pg/ml
TPO 9 IU/ml
T4 1.6 ng/dl

Most guys feel the real benefits of TRT on 1000ng dl mark, your TT already low why would you decrease your dose even more?

Nothing jumps out at me indicating a problem with your thyroid assuming the ranges top out at 4.4 for Free T3. Those aren’t T3 numbers, T3 ranges are 80-180 ng/dl.

Beats me at this point I can alway add a thyroid panel on my next follow up if things don’t change with the switch to prop.

Couple suggestions

  1. Thyroid: I didn’t benefit from trt till thyroid was fixed. Your probably fine but worth a look.

  2. Higher levels. Don’t lower. You dose to symptom relief.

  3. Go scrotum cream. Applying to the scrotum gives you 85-90ish % absorption. It is great for labido and you see immediate results. You don’t have to let it build up in your system. Dose and within a couple hours your levels are as high as it’s goinf to get. It stays high normal for 10/12 hours and then you take a second dose. Just make sure your product is quality otherwise it’s hit or miss. I love it. My doc gives it to all his clients and has been for years. Jay Campbell kept saying labido labido when he switched.

Keep in mind cream is not why it’s better. It’s becusse your applying it to the scrotum. It does not process through the liver and estrogen does not spike much.

So I’m debating on getting labs done at the 3 week mark since the switch to prop I felt like crap the last few days tried eod @ 20 for a few days and felt like absolute shit the second day and I’m running ED now. Just trying to get an idea of what labs to get done in two weeks that would give me a general idea of whats going on other than the requested basics T, TT, DHT, E2. If the bigger picture could potentially help me dial in a protocol that works what should be included other than a thyroid panel?

Welcome to 80% of guys who tried ED and EOD to solve there TRT issues. You are not alone.
In the last 4 years over about 6 mens TRT forums I am a member of I can count on 1 hand the number if guys who posted ED injections fixed their TRT issues.
Hell even the guys who religiously preaches here and recommends it to everyone no matter what their bloods look like can’t get his own daily / EOD protocol working for the last two years.

Thats the thing, I’ve tried E5d, E3.5d, EOD, and now ED. But ED with prop I feel different in a way its kinda hard to explain. I just want to find something that works in a way that I actually feel good and don’t have to contemplate getting Cialis at 30 or get put on another drug that I’ll be stuck with the rest of my life.

It will be difficult to get a general idea of where you are when your levels are in flux, it would be like trying to measure the height of a pool in a pool designed to generate waves. Add to that now you’re on ED and is just too much chaos to make sense of, talk about levels in flux…

You can’t ever really judge a protocol in 3 weeks as it takes 6 weeks for levels to become stable.

You should consider T-cream applied once or twice daily to the scrotum. I’ve seen it work for low SHBG guys.

[quote=“systemlord, post:14, topic:254050”]
s for levels to become stable.
[/quote]Will things like thyroid function still be in flux as well? The main thing I’m curious about right now is the e2 at a constant of 14~ over a 3 month period Pre trt and Preod I was in the 37~pg/ml range and still haven’t touched an AI

Testosterone, estrogen and DHT are in flux. You could only succeed on daily injections unless you like excess androgens.

You don’t believe everyone feels amazing 3 weeks into protocol I hope.

I wasn’t sure, I was just hoping with prop being a shorter ester and consistent dosing that things would stabilize a bit sooner 6-8 weeks. I’d really hate to be one of those people that keeps buzzing by in life half zoned out and just in a funk in general. I’ll just keep things as is until the 6 week mark and see where things sit.

I don’t think your gonna get stuck. It will get fixed and you’ll be fine. You need to hang in there. Your dialing it in .

You need to spend the money and consult a good doc in the states and have them look at everything and tell you what the next step is.

I’m using defy right now but I’m not sure how much faith I have in them if there is something else going on or if I’m just pissing most of my test out before its had a chance to do something. I’m open to better suggestions on a telemobile clinic if defy doesn’t pan out, as my current job has me all over the country with no set schedule.

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Defy is great but nobody is perfect. If he cannot figure out your issues find another doc and not a clinic. My doc literally sat down with me for 2 hours and no rush. They called pharmacy and lady met me half way to airport and gave me 6 months supply.

He said “take your dose as prescribed, and every month or so we will talk and tweak your regiment until your 100%. Until then let me focus on fixing you”. I like that. Tells me he’s 100% confident. Bad ass

Email me I can refer you. Otherwise give them another try.

I personally would spit on a docs foot if he said here’s take cialis for Ed. Considering it was fine before hand. It’s like saying sorry I don’t know.

Now with updated labs! Decided to retest thyroid panel and WTF? this is currently on 16mg Prop daily, Iodide supplement and a few other minerals.