Switching to SQ from IM - Advice?

I’m finally making the switch to SQ from IM after over a year. Anyone have any advice for me? First two went fine in my delt, although it takes several minutes to load the 29g pins. I will rotate between delts and thighs, keeping my belly for HCG. Will I experience any sort of “drop off” or anything like that during the transition phase?

I didn’t, if you think about it your levels will be more steady. They worked so good for me I had to lower my dose, TT and FT was to high.

Thanks for the response. Do you stay with the delts/thighs? My TT is generally upper normal (7-800 LabCorp), but FT usually runs on the high side. I haven’t had any bloodwork done since switching, but I’m due for another set of labs.

I am curious to make this change as well. I don’t like the fact that I will be doing this forever and the potential for scar tissue to build up is too great.

I have quite a few 29g 1/2mL pins on hand from my HcG subq’s. I wonder if those would work? I take .4 mL x2 weekly, so I would almost be filling up that entire barrel with T. It seems like that would not only take until doomsday, but would it not cause a billion air bubbles to form in the barrel also? It seems like injecting this amount from such a small pin would take several minutes, is that what you folks have found? Lastly, is this an injection you could also do in the stomach, or do you folks recommend the quads/glutes/delts only? As always, thanks for the help!

I just did the same thing and had a big drop while transferring from intermuscular to subcutaneous. It took me about two to 2 1/2 weeks to go to the transition. Lobid was down I was edgy and it gave me some concern. After about two weeks everything went back to normal and I even had an increase in test (70+ Pts) and decrease in e2 (27 down to 17). I feel tons better and administering them is a snap. I usually back load the slin pins. I do about a month to a month and a halves worth of pinning by back loading. This process makes it even more of a snap. I haven’t had any issues since running this protocol. I rotate belly, sides, and inner thigh fat. I want to do delts but am worried that it won’t be IM because of it not being fatty enough.

You made a good choice and will enjoy the results.

How do you pinch enough fat on your delts/quads to do a Sub-Q injection there? Or are you just pushing the needle into the muscle area and assuming that the needle is short and won’t penetrate the muscle?

I inject my HCG Sub-Q into belly fat which I can noticeably pinch–I do not have near enough fat in my delts/quad areas to do a similar injection there. I just ram the needle into the muscle area and inject–I have always thought this is IM (albeit a shallow IM) rather than Sub-Q.

I agree with VTballa. When you go into the delt it will be a shallow intermuscular rather than a true subcutaneous injection. Try to go to a lot more fatty areas as mentioned above.

Follow up to the Sub-Q vs IM:
Is it possible there is an in between area?

I have also been wanting to make the switch to sub-q.

A month ago I used a 5/8" 26g needle for a few injections in the thigh and deltoid. It was still IM but not very deep. After about a week I felt horible. It made me afraid to make the switch to sub-q.
I figured it was not as effective because it wasn’t as deep into the muscle. - Is there any truth to this?

I also wondered if it was sub-q or IM but VTBalla answered this. Its still IM. - just a weak sauce version.

So what is the definition of sub-q? Does it have to be into fat? Or just under skin but not into muscle?
Is there a difference between the navel and the love-handle?

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This helped me. http://www.cc.nih.gov/ccc/patient_education/pepubs/subq.pdf

There is no difference between navel and love handles so long as there is enough fatty tissue to receive this in sub q injection. One thing that I did notice between Navel and love handles is that the love handles show little to no redness or irritation and the lump is less pronounced if there is any lump at all. This might maybe because I have a little more fat around my love handles opposed to my navel.

This is making me want to try SubQ…

So no real difference in transition period except for one person with 2.5 weeks? Would it be worthwhile to IM half the weekly dose and SubQ the other half for two weeks to offset this? Or if Ive been on HRT for 3 years shouldnt I be pretty consistent with that much build up of Cyp and even if the SubQ is slower to absorb or be utilized by the body I should be ok for a few weeks?

Ive been pinning Sun and Wed…with SubQ keep it up that way?

I need to go back and re-read all of KSMANs awesome stickies…been a while…but anytime I can avoid less jabbing muscles Im all for it. Id like to try SubQ Test and go back to IM GH, right now Im doing IM test and SubQ GH.

I read something somewhere sometime that you should not do a SC injection real close to the naval. I think this was for peptides, and had something to do with messing with absorption. I do not recall if it was a scientific source or bro-science, but I have avoided the direct naval region for this reason. Usually go 3 inches or so to the left or right.

I guess I should state that my delts aren’t very fatty either, so I’m probably truly doing a shallow IM. I’ll try my belly/love handle area on Thursday and see how it works out.

My subcutaneous injections are on Monday and Friday at 50 mg doses. From what I’ve read and been told on this forum and other one is not to do more than 50 mg. Some people like to do doses even more frequently like every third day it is up to you.

Whats the reason for no more than 50mg? If there is some specific reason then I will have to break it up as Im on 200mg week TRT.

Once I tried to back down my doses, and felt like total crap…but I could try again

From my understanding is that it will cause a greater lump under your skin and redness and might have to do with absorbtion (last part is a guess). So if you were to administer 200 mg a week I would divide it up so doses not larger than 50 mg. Also sub q is usually for smaller doses. This is why the normal protocol from most dr want you to dose weekly or every two weeks IM because IM injections can take a greater volume of fluids. However going to sub q injections would require you to dose more frequently at a smaller amount (which is actually better to get a steadier amount of T).

good input…well Ive done SubQ before while on the road and didnt have big enough pins to IM, because I trust KSman and know he does SubQ…never hurt doing 1/2cc…well yesterday I did 1/2 cc but Ive had this bottle of Test from HRT doctors back in day I used before I found a good local doc, and it hurts like hell. Its some compounding pharmacy and I remember when i injected it in my glutes hurt like hell like I injected a golf ball the day after for a few days…so after 3 shots I put it away…well I thought since I was doing SubQ I would use this stuff up so it didnt go to waste knowing I paid like $200 for the vial (back then I didnt know CVS or any chain pharmacy sells Test for $80 or whatever!)…so I think it hurts like hell because of whatever reason this compounding pharmacy test is not right.

I dont wanna waste it…but might have to toss this stuff…sad I got like 7cc of Test in it still!!! But if it feels like a golf ball in my glute or now in my stomach, its not worth it I guess…

So maybe Ill do M/W/F 1/3 cc SubQ and go back to the brand name Test which didnt hurt before when I did it SubQ

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I read something somewhere sometime that you should not do a SC injection real close to the naval. I think this was for peptides, and had something to do with messing with absorption. I do not recall if it was a scientific source or bro-science, but I have avoided the direct naval region for this reason. Usually go 3 inches or so to the left or right.[/quote]

Back in 1999 I was doing Interferon 3 times a week in the belly for hep c with a pre loaded pen. They were pretty cool you just dial the dose each time and put a new pin on and good to go. It would be nice if they would start making Test Cyp available in the pens. Also was told to stay 3" away from naval.

Anymore into about Staying 3 inches away from the navel. I haven’t always stayed that far away. I will put it into practice now.

Small update:

So far, I’ve not noticed any “drop off” in feeling/mood/etc. Seems to be going well.

When injecting SC: you pinch up the skin, then inject from the side into the pinch/fold of skin. The needle is aimed to go between your fingers and the needle can be very close to parallel to the muscle layers below. In this manner, there is no contact with muscle tissue. You will want to observe veins and aim to avoid. Veins have nerves.

Bubbles: This is the benzyl alcohol boiling. That ‘vapor’ pressure limits the vacuum and determines flow rate when loading. The bubbles mostly disappear as the loading completes. This can appear to be an air leak, definitely not.

Filling/injecting: I pull the plunger back to load with air, then remove the cap and insert in the vial, inject the air, invert and hang the vial with the needle dangling. I then go load up my hCG and HGH, dispense anastrozole etc. Then the syringe is loaded and ready to go. When injecting, you can apply a lot of force to the plunger and the small piston area develops very high pressures! Injection time is very reasonable. And if you inject more frequently, the smaller volumes inject faster. Use 0.5ml syringes, large will develop less pressure and make injection times longer. I have not tried the .3ml syringes, but I have an expectation that they would just be too small to hand.

Multi load: I still load the 0.5 ml syringes with multiple doses, swabbing the needle and re-capping if not empty.

Belly or legs: Seems like many find that there are less nerves and less discomfort with SC over their upper legs. It is easier to see and avoid veins in the upper leg. But do whatever seems to work best for you. With my belly, I get sore lumps, others reported otherwise.